It's also ok not to attend funerals at all, even if you were close. I broke down every funeral I went to and would rather avoid that in the future.
It's also ok not to attend funerals at all, even if you were close. I broke down every funeral I went to and would rather avoid that in the future.
I fundamentally disagree with this, and especially people who need the website should not follow your advice.
Sometimes in life you just have to do stuff, even if you hate it.
These things also have a tendency to become easier the more you do it, so advising people to just not do it seems horrible advice.
Not showing up to a funeral of someone you were close to just because of your own discomfort is plain weird.
Not really. I've been to many funerals and I dont want to go to many more. You gotta learn that self preservation is more important sometimes.
The relevant thing is care and aid for the grieving loved ones of the deceased.
Your presence at the funeral, while symbolic (some might even say empty symbolism) is a way of showing the mourners that the deceased was cared for by many. It is comforting to some extent.
But of course, if funerals are too difficult, there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.
I never had to do with the grieving though? What do I care about the grieving? I care about the deceased person. I am not going to fake interest in their family if it never occurred when my friend was alive.
Personally I'd separate this out into two cases:
1 - Actively dislike the family
Sure, skip the funeral. If you & the family didn't get along in life there's no reason to put yourself through something you don't want to go to.
2 - Anything else
I'd go as a show of support for the family because the family was important to my friend. "It's what my friend would want" is the guiding principle here.
That said - I'm writing this as someone who was very uncomfortable going to funerals and now, years later, I regret choosing to stay home rather than go.
Your mileage may vary, as they say.
This has all been explained to you, thoroughly and repeatedly.
In the end... whatever. There are a lot of things that go into being a decent human being.
At the very least, I'm sure we'd agree on the big picture: the sum of how we care for our friends when they're alive is more important than what we do on the day of their funeral. So if you're being a good friend in other ways... hey, good on you.
Why compartmentalize your love? I recently attended a funeral and shared sympathies with several strangers that over the course of time, became closer to friends.
Your friend almost certainly loved their family, and their family loved your friend. Although they may be gone, you can still keep that connective love alive by doing the same things for others that you’d do for your friend - sometimes, it’s as simple as showing up, even just once, for someone else.
Do you really have to fake that?
Yes, I dont connect over these things. Also I have a pretty good circle of friends and dont need more people in my life. Every loss of a friend is like the world os falling apart and with more people in my life id have to go through that even more. I keep the number of people I have to deal with small.
Correct.
Sometimes.
Not for funerals of people you knew well.
Let me tell you, it is absolutely not ok. The family does notice who is and isn't at the funeral and they WILL assume you are just not emotionally involved. I have seen this scenario play out. Don't be surprised if people stop showing up at something you organize. Breaking down at a funeral is absolutely ok and will strengthen the bond with those left behind.
I made the complete opposite experience thankfully. I am very open about this and my friends understand. I dont care about their families, I care about the person in the casket.
It is not ok. Be an adult and deal with the emotional discomfort to pay your last respects.
Not a popular approach these days, but you’re absolutely right. This is an example where setting healthy boundaries has veered into hiding away from life and avoiding hard, messy human things.
It seems like, at least in online places like Reddit, "boundaries" has become this magical, get-out-of-jail-free word that justifies people to short-circuit norms and socialization and just do whatever they want in human relationships. "I want to do X, and I don't want to do Y, and I don't want my partner calling me out for doing Z. If you don't like it, that's your problem, and if you object, you're crossing my boundaries and are in the wrong!"
Before, it was just "being selfish and anti-social." Now, the same thing is called "setting healthy boundaries for myself."
To be fair, plenty of boundary setting is legitimate. I find that hypocrisy is an excellent tell for when someone is misusing the principle. Eg. when someone says "I don't like it when you talk about this subject" and then proceeds to bring up said subject all the time when they have something to say about it.
What exactly is wrong with being selfish and anti social? Most of yalls employers are selfish and you still work for them.
Max Stirner's ghost just smiled somewhere
Amen. I had a long and damaging relationship with somebody who did exactly what you describe. Used "boundaries" as an excuse for being a toxic human being, as many narcissists do.
A good test of the boundary-setter's true nature is whether or not they find alternative means of doing the thing or if they are just claiming "but muh boundaries!" to excuse their lack of being a decent human being.
If their "boundaries" prevent them from showing up at a funeral to provide a moment of comfort to the survivors of the deceased... well okay. There could be valid reasons. Suppose funerals tend to induce suicidal ideation in an individual. Certainly nobody would suggest that individual should risk a suicidal episode.
But, is the person finding an alternative way to show that care? Flowers, letters, a visit at some other time? Or are they just narcissisticly using it as an excuse to avoid spending time for the benefit of anybody other than themselves?
I had my fair share of hard messy human things and I distance from that. Self preservation is more important than some official gathering.
You can live your life however you like, but dealing with hard messy human things is part of being a functioning adult in society. At some point if you can't grow up and learn to control your expression of emotion then it really limits your options. This is something you might want to work on, perhaps with professional help.
It’s not self preservation, it’s avoidance and selfishness.
Avoidance can be self preservation. My friends are fine with me not attending, why aren't you? Because I dont wanna join some human made sadness gatherings with some religious idiot talking about how my atheist friend is with God now?
This conversation started as general advice, and as such, avoidance of human connection around death is poor advice. You sound like you have good reason for your avoidance, but you shouldn't extrapolate that it's a good general strategy.
It is a good general strategy. Place yourself before others. Ain't nobody is an altruist.
Humans are societal creatures. That avoidance as self-preservation can be considered a weak trait. Society only really works if we know we have each other's backs when the chips are down, so with you abandoning situations when the chips are down demonstrates you won't be there when I need you to be, so it's probably better to cut you out now, right?
Or, why would I put food on the table for the slowest gazelle?
> Society only really works if we know we have each other's backs when the chips are down
I'd disagree with this - capitalism tends to reward defection from this norm, and it's been a stable equilibrium for centuries at this point. You have more of a point when it comes to community, but even many intentional communities are massively hypocritical when it comes to this, with higher-status people having the ability to deviate from norms at will.
helpful reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinschaft_and_Gesellschaft
We live in a post society. We are long past the "we need each other" part. Everybody only cares about themselves and im just reflecting what the world gives me.
Agreed. I used to hate going to funerals and skipped some, telling myself it was because I didn't know what to say, might embarrass myself, etc. After being in the receiving line of a couple, I realized someone else's funeral isn't about me. The truth is no one notices exactly what you say because they're dealing with their own grief, and "I'm sorry for your loss" is perfectly acceptable. So now I just go, pay my respects, and feel better for doing it.
This is the worst advice someone could give. It absolutely is ok to decide on your own if it's good for you and the others if you attend or not. I wouldn't want anyone to come to my funeral just because others expect him to.
If I was close to someone and they skipped my funeral for no other reason than their own mild discomfort I would seriously question how close we were after all.
> ...they skipped my funeral ... I would seriously question ...
This isn't how death works
Maybe you could haunt them or something, who knows
Someone should attend your funeral because they made some kind of connection with you in this short life. Being uncomfortable for 30 minutes is the least one can do. I am so tired of people being so emotionally immature that they can’t handle a little discomfort.
Seconded, the person you initially respond to is the target audience of this website, and would probably do well to take it in.
A funeral is not 'some event' that you can just skip for your own benefit. That's not what it's about.
Well, it turned from the original "breaking down", through "slight discomfort" to "skipping for a benefit". Just let me tell you for someone to break down can mean a panic attack, where they can not catch breath, or they just crawl into a corner acting like a kid, it can mean throwing up violently or it can mean falling into a long term depression. Everyone can have their own reasons and way of processing pain.
Whats so special about a funeral? It's just tons of sad people. I meet the relevant people in unofficial circumstances. My friends understand this, so I dont see the issue.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make here.
“It's just tons of sad people.” - this makes you sound like you have the emotional acuity of a 4 year old. You can fix that, but you can’t do it sitting in front of your computer.
It's weird, in one comment you say you only care about the deceased "person in the casket," and here you mention the respect of friends (who are presumably living) as important. It sounds to me like you might be a younger person with a slightly naive worldview on death.
Looking at his submissions, he/she is a younger person. But even still my 13 year old has more sense than them.
Tim Dillon has a nice explanation if you want something a little more bombastic and attention grabbing.
It’s absolutely okay to prioritize the needs and comfort of the living.
The guest of honor won’t notice, I promise.
If the other (living) attendees have a problem with it, it’s at least 51% a them problem, IMO.
This take is sad. We have become a society of emotionally weak people.
My wife and I make our kids do uncomfortable things because that’s what separates children from adults. An example, and not even the hardest one: Yesterday we were vacationing at the beach and we got a call from the dog boarding facility keeping our 8 year old dog, she was having seizures and had to be taken to an animal hospital. We drove 3 hours to see her. There was lots of crying, in front of everyone - who gives a shit. We had to have her euthanized. The 4 of us stayed with her for the entire process. We could have just told them to put her down over the phone and continued our vacation, or we could have left the room as they ended her life. She wasn’t conscious and we have no way of knowing if she was aware of our presence, but if something/someone makes an impact on your life, learn to be a little unselfish and be present. It hurts, but just because something hurts doesn’t mean we should shy away from doing it.
Learning to steel yourself is an important life skill. Obviously a dog is not a human, but the parallels are there - as humans we have honored the end of a impactful life throughout our history.
It's also selfish, narcissistic and kind of anti-social. Somehow, we've uplifted "taking care of yourself" over every other societal norm, obligation, and courtesy. Humans are not meant to be "on the comfortable/happy path" 100% of the time. Sometimes, we are expected to act altruistically. Sometimes we should make small sacrifices for others' benefits. Sometimes we should be go out of our comfort zone to comfort someone else. This doesn't mean torture yourself and ruin your mental health, but it does mean stepping out of your usual routine occasionally, for other people's sake.
This is such an anti social take. How dense to you have to be to not realize attendance is for the benefit of the living. The dead person is not the guest of honor it's the family of the deceased if there is any "guest of honor" at all
Not attending rightfully costs you a lot, even if you're lacking the social skills to perceive it
As far as I am concerned I dont exist for the families of my friends. I exist for my friends. Never cared about their families and they never cared about mine, its just how we move.
I’m in my mid-40s. When I randomly reconnect with friends from my 20s, they still ask about my parents and my parents still occasionally ask about them.
Yea so everyone should do that? Or are other platonic relationships allowed?
You’re clearly not receptive to anything outside of your comfort zone, so I think we can end this thread right here.
You're clearly not capable of seeing that humans live differently which is completely fine. Some tribes eat people, some tribes bury them. Just because most people value ordinary people things doesn't mean you should be forced into their culture
Look, if you want to live life like a hermit, that’s on you. As you get older, you will lose people, friends, family, acquaintances, not only through death, but growing apart for “normal” reasons, moving away, job changes, changes in interests, getting married, etc. Rarely in life do you make more connections later in life than you had when you were younger. The more you rail against social norms, the more you isolate yourself. If that’s what you want, fair enough. But if you want to be part of a well functioning social group, the rest of us value getting together at the end of someone’s life.
A funeral is not done for the deceased. A funeral is for the people who are still there.
These people, the real guests of honour, will remember your absence for the rest of their lives.
There's nothing to be ashamed of when crying while being faced with the limitedness of life.
Still doesn't wanna make me do it in public.
grow up and learn to steel yourself
No: grow up and realize that expressing an emotion is neither childish nor shameful.
It's such a young person thing to believe the adrenaline of pushing against the envelope is a better feeling than the endorphins of expressing appropriate emotion. I'm sure they'll learn this when they come of age.
Life can be painful, and comfort, solace, and community are really nice when you're on the downswing instead of the upswing, which happens to all of us if you're strong enough to live that long.
Community is having to deal with way too many unauthentic brainless people.
Categorizing some of the most meaningful, most fundamental human experiences as "brainless" is no doubt part of the reason you struggle with having community. And, I'm guessing, why communities struggle with you.
Maybe I dont value community if I consider most people brainless? That's my conclusion of 30 years of life experience. I was traumatized at the age of 15 and didn't value community ever since. During that time I was dropped and ignored by society. Fake ass society, the only value you have as a human is what you can provide, you are never on the receiving end.
"grow up" is such a boomer thing to say
Because they grew up?
Maybe you should try it
> I broke down every funeral I went to and would rather avoid that in the future.
I understand it can be emotionally challenging, but arguably that expression of grief is what provides meaning to attending a funeral. Furthermore, if you don't attend a close friend's funeral, don't expect him or her to attend yours.
> if you don't attend a close friend's funeral, don't expect him or her to attend yours.
Well, regardless if you attend your friend's funeral or not, you can be sure he or she will not attend yours.
I think that's the point, showing vulnerability in front of others helps them to trust you.
Got to disagree. If there's one situation where a public breakdown is generally understood to be appropriate, it's a funeral. And if you're saying you don't want to because it's uncomfortable for you to be seen that way, well, the funeral isn't about you.
If i am forced to attend its about me.
How old are you, 14?
30 with lots of dead people in my life. Just dont tell other people what to do.
While it's OK if this truly is what you need, be mindful that you're not making a decision you'll come to regret. There is no shame in crying at a funeral. Helping each other through death is one of life's innate obligations. One of the few things we have no choice but to do as humans is die.
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I read that as the author, going to the funeral, broke down. That is they felt devastated emotionally, internally and possibly externally as in "broke down crying".
The funeral itself probably continued without any issues. I guess that's another social skills lesson, the world carries on regardless of your emotions.
“Break down” means to cry.
Zwnow threw the undertaker off hell in a cell and he plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table.
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Is this AI spam or psychosis? I don't understand.
3rd option is you just don't understand. This is language people use to describe narcissists. Flying monkeys are people who help them manipulate others and vampires are "emotional vampires". Poster was saying a narcissist had died, leaving their support people leaderless.
I think you're right, but for a wonderful second I thought there was some weird fantasy reference going on
Weird fantasies are fun and all until the world demands that you fit them into a pre-configured narrative a la whoever and then you lose the ability to have them.
A reference to the Wizard of Oz movie? I hadn't heard this jargon before.
It's an extremely uncalibrated reply given the context regardless, even more so expecting the general audience here to understand this weirdly specific language. Something is definitely off.
Calibrate my barometer, good sir. Needed to hang around the 80s a little longer.
Could you explain how it relates to what you were replying to about breaking down funerals?
Is a lay ontology that's basically a folk offshoot of the proverbial 5th edition practitioner's manual and people use to keep the question of ethics in our closes relationships at arm's length (because they've also, like you and I, found this self-consistent set of just-so stories weirdly smeared atop all useful ethics and psychology discourse on the Internet) proto-AI spam or the reins of as many future mass psychoses as the doctor ordered? And are we cool yet?
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