Pirates! is a fantastic game. What I find fascinating is that some games like Diablo, Dunes II or Doom spawned a whole genera, while other fantastic games could not find a worthy successor. I'm thinking about Syndicate, Lemmings, Defender of the Crown or North & South (god the laughs!), and many others.
Sid Meier himself warned about the difficulty of trying to design games tat are multiple games at once, as basically everything in the list other than Lemmings is). His whole "one good game is better than two great ones" argument, as it's difficult to get a good balance of fun for any given player. If someone likes, say, the strategy elements of North & South, but not the battles, or they feel like they want more of one game but they have to do the other, there's some tension there. So you have to make the games be just fun enough, and change just often enough. A really hard problem.
And this is why it's relatively unlikely to find worthy successors: Making the whole be as good as the sum of its parts is hard enough. Getting to be as good as Pirates, or the best Cinemaware games, where the whole was significantly better than all of the games in isolation, is aiming foolishly high. Which is why, say, the xcom remakes are such a wonder, because they manage to both change the original two minigames underneath, improving them substantially, all while still being balanced.
Thanks for that Sid Meier quote: I think this is a really good explanation of why I bounce of Anno games hard and love other similar, more pure, sims!
What kind of pure sims you have in mind? I'm also looking for some games in that category.
Syndicate on MS-DOS is the only game I know of to look good with 16 colors on VGA 640x480. The other one would be Gods by Bitmap Brothers also 16 colors but on 320x200 resolution. Great examples of limitations driving amazing outcomes.
All of the big Bullfrog games were unique and for some reason never spawned imitators. Populous, Magic Carpet, Theme Park/Hospital, Dungeon Keeper alongside Syndicate
They definitely are successors to some of those. Two Point Hospital for one.
It never quite recaptured the charm of the original, but that might just be because I’m older.
And Rollercoaster Tycoon. But I‘ll never forget how awesome the original Theme Park felt. I even had the SNES version.
Is that any good? It came up on my recommended list on Steam for years and has since stopped. I was vaguely interested
i enjoyed both two point hospital and two point museum. i think i would recommend museum over hospital, but it's close. i didn't play two point campus, and have heard it's the weakest of the three.
two point museum is 33% off and hospital is 75% off right now.
Cool thanks!
Man I really miss Populous, the whole feel of that game was just so unique and fantastic.
I lost many hours to Populous II. Being able to rain down lightning was just plain fun.
Four Tribes is a decent iOS clone.
Dungeon Keeper absolutely produced knockoffs. Orcs Must Die, Dungeon Defenders, Dungeons, etc.
Don't forget War for the Overworld!
For Populous, see https://store.steampowered.com/app/319560/Reprisal_Universe/
It's very much a similar game.
There are plenty of theme park and dungeon sims now. Even Syndicate has a spiritual successor made by former syndicate devs
> Even Syndicate has a spiritual successor made by former syndicate devs
For those who are asking: this successor is Satellite Reign:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_Reign
I feel like the limitations are the reason some/most of those games were so good.
Imagine a modern Syndicate remake... it would "have to" be MMO, it would "have to" have character development, as in the stats would go up. It would "have to" be "rogue-like" (ie procedural level generation, no story.)
It's a non-starter. No studio would accept the idea of the game as it is, since the graphics required to be "modern" would need an amount of work that wouldn't mix with the length of the gameplay of the original.
You can sort of play either syndicate or syndicate wars in rimworld with right set of mods. No studios needed.
Satellite Reign is what crap it comes to otherwise. Even though it was kickstarted, the "studio vision" ensured it was stillborn.
Bitmap brothers are also responsible for one of the most underrated RTS games imo: "Z"
Also, nothing quite like the Black & White games has matched what the originals offered.
B&W is awesome. But Populous has been the first game to wow me and will forever have a place in my heart.
All (?) of Lionhead Studios are basically classics like that with no true successors, B&W and also The Movies and Fable.
I recall playing the hell out of the original Xcom game
Not sure if there's anything quite like Sacrifice, which to be fair was an interesting blend rather than a wholly unique game play like dune 2.
I fondly remember this game and when I was a kid spent a lot of time playing it. I thought it was amazing with the voice acting for the gods and music and gameplay. I agree there was nothing quite like it released after this game. You can still buy it on GOG btw.
One Must Fall 2097. Whilst it did get a sequel back in 2003 (Battlegrounds), it was a disaster that couldn't capture the charm of the OG.
And whilst there are many games in the fighting genre, there's never been any other game like OMF.
I remember playing this game as a child and absolutely loving every tidbit of it... there's never been anything quite like it since, especially nothing with such a banger of a soundtrack.
One of the best parts of the game: Your scowling coach berating you for getting the robot too smashed up and then having to pay for the repairs.
that game had such a dope soundtrack!
This?
https://www.zophar.net/music/ms-dos/one-must-fall-2097
Kenny Chou (the OG composer) remade the theme song a few years ago! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvlVaQl7kEk
And DeBisco did a psytrance mix of the Power Plant theme, which is also epic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7C-f2FpNy0
Programmers, who knows what they're doing in there?
I've been waiting for a successor to Aerobiz: Supersonic. I've played about every airline management sim since then, and nothing scratches the itch.
What’s the best way to play pirates these days?
In a c64 emulator, full screen. You can find the .d64 floppy images online. Use a joystick or at least a cheap usb gamepad, the ship to ship fighting is more fun than.
Or if you have a real C64 with a CRT that would be best, but than with some kind of mass storage attached (anything that is faster than a 1541 since the game is so big it has to load before every fight or other activity).
The game can be pretty immersive and playing it through is a multiple hour endeavour.
If in a ship to ship fight, you gotta raise sails first (by moving the joystick up).
Edit: Vice is an emulator packaged in Debian Contrib, but you need the C64 ROM file (easy to find online).
"In a browser" is always an option:
https://archive.org/details/msdos_Sid_Meiers_Pirates_1987
https://archive.org/details/PiratesMacintosh
There are probably others, but Archive.org is misbehaving at the moment.
The Xbox remake from 2004 plays well on current-gen Xboxes.
I played the remake, which was pretty good, though now 20 years old itself.
tbh if you want to scratch the pirate-y itch, Assassin's Creed Black Flag is excellent, if just for the sea shanties.
Which has itself just had a remake released for it I see! I don't keep up with games these days.
The remake is on Steam
gog.com or Xbox backwards compatibility?
Is there another game like Syndicate or Lemmings out there? Seriously, I have been itching to scratch that old itch...
For Syndicate I tried Satellite Reign - it was ~10 years ago, and despite great graphics back then, I was disappointed by the fact you couldn't even drive cars (where it was a possibility in 1993!); bummer!
So if anyone knows a better title - I'd likely give it a try!
There is Syndicate Wars (Succcessor) and Satellite Reign, a spiritual successor from 2015.
My memories are hazy but wasn’t syndicate a squad based action strategy? In which case stuff like Fallout Tactics or Company of Heroes?
I just ported syndicate to the web
https://this.os.isfine.org/#syndicate-plus
With some improvements and, uhm, modernizations https://www.linkedin.com/posts/georgzoeller_i-ported-syndica...?
> Is there another game like Syndicate or Lemmings out there?
Concerning Lemmings: Gemini listed the following games that are at least similar in spirit:
- Humanity (2023)
- Zombie Night Terror (2016)
- Spirits (2011)
- Craftlings (2026)
There is one I haven't seen listed yet, Lemmings was one of the games I beat very early in life.
Creepers https://www.myabandonware.com/game/creepers-1kj
Had the same feel from what I remember playing it as a kid. Did the link so it wasn't the wrong one from the screenshots.
It has been years since I went though my totes of PC games, so I was glad I had the right name.
For games like Lemmings:
Rat Trap/Krusty's Fun House (available on Amiga just like Lemmings)
Chuchu rockets
This is really getting into the weeds, but there is also the Japanese game Bazaru De Gozaru for the PC Engine CD (TurboGrafx 16 CD)
Wow, you just tickled a whole bunch of nostalgia centers in my brain.
Pirates! was a gift from my wife years ago, and I kind disappeared for a couple of weeks. The dancing was tedious though :-)
There was dancing in Pirates?
EDIT: did a quick search. I played Pirates on the C64 and never heard of the rather recent "Gold" edition for PC. I know where I'm going to spend the next weekend! Thanks for bringing it to my attention <3
Spent the week playing it. The dancing can be turned down once you find a governor's daughter you want to focus on.
The gold edition doesn't have the eras selection and the treasure fleet doesn't exist the same way. Sailing is easier but I became promoted quickly with all countries and could never attack a town. Promotions are easier. Not a edition.
Yeah, I was referring to the 3D release in 2004, not the original.
North & South is part of a long tradition of Strategic Map plus Tactical Battle wargames that culminated in the all encompassing Total War series.
Mike Diskett, the lead designer of Syndicate Wars, tried to do a Syndicate remake-ish thang called Satellite Reign recently; it came out on Steam as an early release but never quite made playability IMHO. Shame: the conceptual foundation seems disproportionately more urgently pertinent for mass-comprehension today.
I played through Satellite Reign! I remember it being a pretty worthy successor, having also played the original Bullfrog Syndicate.
Unfortunately I think the modern gaming public would be allergic to isometric third person, especially as soon as they encounter visibility issues.
I don't get it about the isometric mode allergy - I personally love such games and feel I'm not the only one.
> it came out on Steam as an early release but never quite made playability IMHO
Satellite Reign has been released as a full game, playable from start to finish and it's really excellent (no idea tbh why the Steam reviews are stuck at 'Mixed', kids these days smh...). It takes a bit to get into the 'flow' and discover all the little gameplay details but once you "got it" it's a lot of fun. I usually do a playthrough at least once a year.
Also re Pirates: one of my favourite 'strategy' games on the Amiga. The 2004 remake in 3D is fun but the graphics really haven't aged well and the art style wasn't all that great to start with.
I'd really like to see a modern 2D Pirates remake with a bit more historical details and fewer gimmicks (e.g. no sword fights and QTE dancing please).
Satellite Reign is amazing, but it was released prematurely. The optimization is horrible such that you'll often struggle to hit 60FPS even on modern hardware, let alone what it must have run like when it was new, some achievements are broken, and there's bugs abounds - like getting stuck in geometry. There's some fan mods that tried to fix stuff but I think these sort of things really push people away. The entire concept of how the game works is also not well explained in the tutorial.
I'd still rate the game a 7/10 because it's so absurdly fun if you can get passed all of this, but it's easy to see how it probably never reached even a fraction of its potential market.
What are the kind of details that emerge in satellite reign?
I was a kickstarter supporter, having played syndicate in childhood, but remember bouncing about 1-2hrs in, mostly because it felt bland, but would love to hear if the world and action becomes more involved :).
I like how each city district can be systematically dismantled, you usually start 'raiding' the police- and drone-stations, which decreases surveillance and increases reaction time for reinforcements in later mission in the same district. For the bigger missions you'll first scout the area for alternative entry points which best match your team's abilities. Is a stealthy approach better or do you go in guns blazing, where will you position your sniper for the best effect? Sometimes you need to escort a civilian in or out, which completely changes the typical approach.
And within a mission you always need to maintain 'tactical awareness', always have an escape route in mind, scout ahead for guard routes and schedules, hack doors and cameras, select the best approach to tackle a specific type of guard or robot. And then of course no mission goes as planned, your team gets pinned down and you need to fight your way out or find a place to hide until the alarm level cools down.
Also depending on the approach you choose for a specific mission you may need to change your team's equipment and cyberware before entering the mission area, or maybe you decide that it's better to first raid the military barracks of the district, hoping to get some new weapon and cyberware blueprints. Or you spend some downtime looking for scientists to hijack (which increase research rate for blueprints), or look for new random people in the streets with better attributes for cloning. Or running low on money maybe it's better to first rob the district bank. Each new district is harder than the last, and during the entire game you're essentially preparing for the final confrontation with the main baddy.
For a relatively small indie game there's a lot of 'gameplay density', I can understand though that the game may feel repetivite, but especially starting to tackle a new district may quickly feel like routine, but that initial routine only exists as preparation for the two or three main mission areas in the district, and those are the 'meat' of the game.
Satellite Reign was fun. Not sure if I'd call 2015 _recent_ though :)
What do you mean, that was just a couple of years- oh. Oh dear, I'm getting old.
Agreed. Such great games!
Was really hopeful https://www.pcworld.com/article/457418/black-annex-is-the-be... would come out. Followed it since the guy posted about it on SomethingAwful a long time ago. No idea what's up with it or him today.
Very much Syndicate vibes