> The ultimate all-in-one PC
I object to this labelling: the term “all-in-one PC” has always been used to mean a computer integrated into a screen, to which you must add a keyboard and mouse (or more likely it will be bundled with a low-quality keyboard and mouse). But this is a computer integrated into a (good) keyboard, to which you must add a screen and mouse—and screens are more expensive than keyboards. Even a basic not-too-horrible screen will cost another $80, and the sort of screen you might like to pair with such a keyboard might be double that.
You don't add a new screen.
You plug it into the family TV. Just like you did in the eighties when you were a kid learning to program with your Speccy or c64 or whatever. Mom or Dad or your siblings can hang out and comment on what you're doing with it. That's the experience Raspberry has been claiming to want to reproduce since they first came onto the scene in 2012, despite them not getting around to stuffing a Pi into this form factor until 2022.
Or you plug it into one of your old monitors. We all have them laying around.
Ever since I had my own source of income, I've only bought laptops and I do not possess any monitor (old or new) at home.
Writing this, I just realized that even at work, we only have a single monitor. And it's stored on a shelf not even plugged.
If that's the only thing keeping you from buying and using a raspberry pi, you can get secondhand monitors or TVs for $20 or so.
> even at work, we only have a single monitor. And it's stored on a shelf not even plugged.
Sounds like a suitable candidate for one of these then? :)
> Mom or Dad or your siblings can hang out and comment on what you're doing with it.
This sounds really cozy. For those of us who never got to experience it - bring it back!
Lying on the living room floor looking up the the TV was great for getting a sore neck. And I still have crusty calloused skin on my elbows from the carpet. Getting an Amiga later on with an actual monitor that sat on a desk was amazing.
Yeah; the marketing language around new Pi products is always a bit flowery... besides this misnomer calling it 'AIO', the marketing also says "uncompromising performance" and "premium desktop computer", which I'd argue are quite a stretch, unless you're comparing it to SBCs and not... desktop computers!
I'd prefer more honest marketing:
- ARM system that fits inside a decent compact keyboard
- acceptable performance for basic computing tasks
- mostly as usable as a mini PC running Linux
- 5-10 years of software support
- easy access to GPIO pins
etc.
> Even a basic not-too-horrible screen will cost another $80
I believe the idea is that you'd plug it into the TV you already have, like we did in the 1980s.
Or you just buy a below $200 laptop.
Below $200 laptops are way worse than what people imagine.
Too many people look at ads, see something that looks like a laptop, and assume it's just a "no thrill" machine that mostly works. I've heard so many "how bad can it be?" hot takes as they've never used anything at that price.
※refurbished is another story, here we're talking about a new and under guarantee device so that wouldn't compare.
Lon Seidman just reviewed a $180 HP laptop from Walmart. Intel N150 processor, can run Linux and has upgradable RAM and storage:
https://youtu.be/FRNz-xakWB8
But then, 2 min into the video they upgrade to 16G RAM and a 1TB SSD before going on to check the perfs. That's a testament to me of how usable they think the laptop is in its sold state.
Looks like the SSD is about $80 on Amazon.com and the RAM maybe $30+, so that's already a significant fraction of the device's original price.
Still reasonably affordable, though. But it's not under $200.
You can buy a near mint lenovo l14 gen 3 from 2022 for $200. I know this because I bought one for my in-laws a few days ago.
You don't get support and the laptop can fail on you on week 4 you're just SOL.
I understand the value of second hand, and randomly bought a discarded corporate HP tower for my home server. But I see it more as a hobby as I can probably fix most issues, than as a purchasing strategy I'd recommend to non technical people for instance.
If you're really concerned, you can buy two $100 secondhand laptops. If one fails, you can use the other. Good secondhand laptops in that price range will be more like 8 or 10 years old, but still usable as basic daily computers.
I've had an excellent experience using secondhand business-class laptops. Several nonprofits I'm involved have nothing but these sorts of laptops, and I've only used secondhand laptops since 2019.
I guess I'm just lucky because none of the 8 laptops I've bought used off ebay in the last 13 years have failed yet.
Why that specific model, tho? I'm looking for something like that. Are there other worthy models?
If you're interested in buying secondhand laptops, I strongly recommend you look at any "business-class" model from any manufacturer. Laptops that cost $1,000+ and are aimed at business fleets, rather than individual consumers. These laptops tend to be very well-made, are designed for commonly-broken parts to be easily replaceable, and are widely available secondhand as companies update their laptop fleets. Here's an incomplete list of manufacturers and series:
* Dell Latitude (except the budget 3xxx models) and Precision * HP EliteBook and ProBook * Lenovo ThinkPad X, T, and P series (in order from small & light to big & powerful) * Panasonic ToughBook (rugged!) and Let’s Note * Fujitsu Lifebook * Acer TravelMate and Extensa * Asus ExpertBook * Toshibe Portege and Tecra * Epson Endeavor
To harp on avhon's point, ThinkPads have specific lines where most parts are made to be easily replaceable: the RAM, SSD, wi-fi card, fans etc. are user accessible. Not all ThinkPads do, so you need to at least care about the line (X, P, T, E, etc., it's a whole world), and check the repair guides and community reception.
Panasonic also has a stellar reputation in that regard.
Bear in mind they will break and you'll be hunting for parts, it's just a lot easier and viable than some other laptops.
I bought that specific model because they're a step up from the E-series (which is actually good now), but not as expensive as the X or T series. I'm very familiar with Thinkpads (I personally have owned 5, and have bought 3 for family, all used, all functioning perfectly). That specific model does not have soldered ram, has lots of replacement parts, is still fairly new, I'd owned an L14 Gen 1, and to be honest, it was just a good deal considering it was in mint condition.
With thinkpads, assuming you're buying used, you can pay the premium for a T or X series, and get a laptop with essentially the same parts, but maybe a better screen or chassis, or you can save money and go with the L or E series. NB, the T and X series oftentimes have soldered RAM, so if you're not satisfied with the amount of ram already in it, do your due diligence to ensure that the model support using SODIMM/replacing the ram.
Yes. I bought a 200€ laptop a decade ago. It was on clearance sale, so no backsies. It was so bad I couldn’t in good conscience ask for more than 50€ when I sold it like 2 days later.
It was great on paper. But the quality of the touchpad was awful. And paired with win8, which relied heavily on touchpad gestures, it was basically unusable.
I bought a Thinkpad t80 and had been pretty good so far
With 16GB of RAM and 256GB of SSD? Has the market really gotten that far?
Yeah I was thinking, for the price of this Pi 500+ I can get a pretty badass secondhand ThinkPad and it will probably be more powerful, too. /shrug
> screens are more expensive than keyboards
This keyboard https://www.norbauer.co/products/the-seneca?variant=48640876...
is more expensive than Pro Display XDR with nanotexture and the 1k stand
Adam Savage posted a video a couple of weeks ago, where he discusses this keyboard with Ryan Norbauer. That thing is overengineered to the point I'd argue it actually becomes some sort of artistic statement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3FEv1qw4_w
At least Norbauer immediately states that it's "probably the world's most insanely irrationally hyperengineered keyboard" and later on continues that "nobody needs a 3000 dollar keyboard."
It's clear from that it's a sincere hyper-obsession, shared by others within a small community. I can respect that more than just making something expensive for the sake of appealing to ultra-rich who wish to flaunt their wealth.
Overpriced to the point that it becomes an artistic statement: “The buyer fell for it again”
That's unnecessarily negative. I'd argue it's not overpriced in the least. It's insanely pricey, of course, and that price tag comes with no real utility above and beyond what a more mundane mechanical keyboard would provide, but it's priced pretty fairly considering the costs involved.
I really like my new macbook keyboard but hate apple. There's something cool about buying from small designers that make something you can't get anywhere else, not because it's rare, but executed in a way that makes no business sense at scale. Find your niche.
I agree and I’ll even cop to having fallen for it a bit myself. But I’m not saying I didn’t fall for it. They aren’t that great for this usecase.
I love it. Great artists ship and they are making what they want and lucky enough to have others that appreciate it and buy.
Seems like the Rolex of keyboards.
People gush over how it's built as if it actually improves the function of it.
The term I've used for these is "single board computer".
Yeah but screens are dirt cheap if you are willing to buy them used via classified ads.
Or you just learn to compute blind
Did this when I built a server with integrated graphics only to find that the motherboard somehow didn't support it
Mobo integrated graphics require CPU support. Maybe you bought one of the slightly cheaper Intel "F" chips without realising it lacks the graphics support?
It was just K, not KF
I also don’t get the language and would prefer to supply my own Keychron with a regular raspberry pi.
Spending more on the keyboard than on the pi! :-)