I'm sure their concerns are valid but just because GrapheneOS don't consider the Fairphone to meet their standards for security doesn't mean it is not worth considering for other people who may have different priorities. Fairphones have certain advantages over Pixels such as better repairability and more ethically sourced labour/components. IMO it's good to see the Fairphone do well (and I hope GrapheneOS's partnership with Motorola also goes well).
Unfortunately it looks like it's not just a issue of missing hardware security features:
> Their partnership with Murena along with promoting it themselves with misleading marketing means no possibility of working with us.
I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem for the long term prospect of the project.
As someone that swapped from fairphone 5 to a pixel9a with graphene.
I have to side with graphene. Fairphone is a cool concept, but its a expensive phone, early on i had problem with the speakers and mic. Security updates are extremely slow, support is extremely slow.
Their missions is to make a fair phone, but is it fair if you are then forced to buy more ewaste because your phone breaks? Look at pixel software support, its really good, and eu made batteries replacement mandatory.
Is it pettiness or just sticking to their morals? Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for.
It is pettiness: watch them below spread their hate of Fairphone in the comments below… (I counted the almost same message being posted 13 times)
It's absolutely OK to disagree with another project's security stance, but spending your time going to the HN comment section of the other project's announcement and spamming disparaging comments there isn't, at all.
Only for one voice to text feature which is completely optional to use and can be replaced with something else.
As another commenter mentioned, this voice to text feature is now an offline feature and no longer sends data outside the device.
As another note, this Fairphone can be purchased without /e/OS at all. It’s now being sold in the US without Murena being involved at all.
[flagged]
> Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for.
How? In what way? Source?
https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using...
June 2025
Someone else shared the up to date info about this feature: https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text
> The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service through an anonymising proxy, so it required a Murena Workspace Premium subscription and an internet connection.
> The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device
[flagged]
I think it's absolutely pettiness at this point, on both sides. I've lost track of the number of times I've seen a post about /e/OS on Mastodon with someone in the replies ranting about how everyone should use Graphene instead. It reminds me of the old joke about vegans.
GrapheneOS and /e/OS' goals are different - the former is about security tightening and the latter is about deGoogling. They just had a public falling out and refuse to let it go.
It is not petty to correct misinformation. You are downplaying the seriousness of the situation by painting it as some kind of drama. /e/OS objectively has poor privacy and security for numerous reasons, there was no "falling out", and GrapheneOS is not critiquing it based on emotion.
GrapheneOS is a privacy project first, does not come bundled with any google services, and only makes connections to 1st party services by default. /e/OS includes many google services with privileged OS integration. GrapheneOS is far more effective at the goal you state /e/OS has than /e/OS.
[flagged]
And yet GrapheneOS is better at everything that /e/ claims.
Not at running on sustainably produced, repairable hardware ;)
(Wish it was though.)
You can buy used Pixels, e.g. from 8a up. I'd claim that this is much more ecological than buying a new Fairphone. I suppose that a Pixel is of a higher quality and has less defects than a Fairphone (which changed the ODM several times). --
This said, I would never use /e/ and Murena as I read too many things I don't like.
[flagged]
You can always flash and factory reset. I’d bet 99.9% of phones on eBay are by and for general public and not some esoteric zero days in the wild that your comment makes it sound like.
[flagged]
Fairphones have atrocious updates which means they aren't sustainable devices. They use a multiple generation old SoC from the beginning with an artificially shortened lifespan. Fairphones are currently designed and assembled by T2Mobile. T2Mobile even signs the firmware on the devices. Prior to the Fairphone 4, they had 2 previous ODM partnerships. They're limited to what their ODM offers which was likely the reason they dropped the 3.5mm audio jack when they moved to T2Mobile for the Fairphone 4. The working conditions and supply chain management are largely up to T2Mobile rather than Fairphone.
There's a severe lack of actual evidence for Fairphones having a more ethical or sustainable assembly and supply chain than Apple. It's likely each one takes more resources to produce and they definitely don't provide comparable updates.
The e/OS/ CEO said during an interview [1] that GrapheneOS, being a security hardened product, was especially useful for p*ophiles to evade justice. This is totally unacceptable. People defending e/OS/ (and Murena, same people, just branding for devices) are either dishonest or useful idiots.
[1] https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171 (full interview at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQV7498NRQw)
You can stick to your morals without blowing things out of proportion.
“We are the only acceptable way to do things and no tradeoffs are acceptable” is fairly petty.
“We have a difference of opinion” isn’t.
[flagged]
In the current version of /e/OS, Voice to Text runs offline.
> The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service [...] The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device
https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text
That does not seem like pettiness to me. That seems like a very good reason to not work with someone.
[flagged]
Fairphones continue to have awful updates, privacy and security. /e/ sending user speech data to OpenAI without consent for years never had anything to do with why Fairphones don't meet our requirements.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354807
I'm not sure how you can read my comment to imply that.
Refusing to work with organizations or individuals that are detrimental to privacy and security is not petty.
Murena does not provide private or secure products and has positioned itself to be against what GrapheneOS provides. A partnership with a company opposed to GrapheneOS and spreading misinformation about it would not be beneficial, and it is not petty to make the smart choice for the benefit of privacy and security.
[flagged]
[flagged]
The privacy and security deficiencies of CalyxOS have nothing to do with compromises for usability. GrapheneOS provides much better usability including through having far broader app compatibility.
CalyxOS drastically reduces privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. It recently went a whole year without privacy and security patches. They're currently months behind on providing current Pixel driver and firmware updates. It has never been a privacy or security hardened OS but rather the direct opposite.
[flagged]
An operating system going a year without providing privacy and security patches is much worse than many options on that basis alone. It's currently months behind on updates. It's hardly the only other option available.
The Graphene devs can be a bit obsessive about security, but with a starting price above $600, I think the average user is probably better off with a Pixel 10a bought on sale closer to $300. The stock Fairphone OS seems to include Google services, which is kind of surprising and at odds with the focus on user control and all that.
Fairphones don't provide bare minimum privacy and security. Expecting that is not being obsessive. The flaws are increasingly glaring and easier than ever to exploit thanks to advances in AI models. People should care about this and should get a device with reasonable privacy and security such as an iPhone instead.
Fairphone 5 and earlier having an end-of-life Linux kernel with the Fairphone 6 coming up next is a disaster. Many months of delays for standard Android userspace patches from when they can first be shipped and years of delays for the full patches is also a major problem. An increasingly small portion of the patches is backported to older releases and they have months of delays for those.
Fairphones are also missing crucial industry standard hardware security features. People have come to expect their device will provide strong encryption with a random 6 digit PIN rather than a very strong passphrase but that's not the case with a Fairphone.
More information:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49354623
[flagged]