But things not in the launch can easily be deprioritized as budget issues indefinitely. “Oh why spend the money adding support for just a few people??” will be the line moving forward.
Yes just like it’s cheaper to just provide people who can’t afford a phone in the US a phone by taxing other cell phone users - and I don’t have a problem with that.
It really doesn't matter. When you power on an android smartphone with google play installed for the first time you are presented with a gate screen that asks you to consent to google's privacy policy. You can't use the phone without accepting. (for example https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-wi...)
Using smartphones with such a setup should not become required by a European government on a fundamental level.
It really does. Just calling everything racism makes racism acceptable to a lot of people.
Telemetry/tracking feels a more appropriate wording than “surveillance”. Exaggeration (in case it was one, not sure) also does not make an argument more compelling – quite the apposite with me at least.
And I use AdGuardHome, uBlock, VPNs, etc. I HATE tracking. But it’s not what the Chinese government does to their citizens for example, it’s not comparable.
With surveillance a person gets surveilled with telemetry a person doesn't. Telemetry is collecting information about the operation of the device. The goal of telemetry is to understand how the device is operating where with surveillance it is about seeing what a person is doing.
The types of data that's collected for these two purposes have a significant overlap.
Sufficiently detailed telemetry is indistinguishable from surveillance because even if the goal isn't to target you right now, they will still have the secondary option of going back and inspecting all that data you sent them if they ever are interested in you. Another secondary use of telemetry is selling it to someone else to squeeze out a bit more money. There's no downside to doing this, so any business that collects a lot of varied telemetry and likes making money might as well do it. And once the data is in the hands of adtech businesses, it becomes a whole lot more like tracking you personally than just collecting some data for development. In Google's case, you don't even need to hand it over to anyone else, everything stays in-house.
Do you imply that it's not possible for the US intelligence agencies to request this data from google per person of interest and deliver some information from the metadata?
What does it matter in practice? Do you seriously think Google, the targeted advertisement company, does not use that Telemetry for targeted advertisements?
Save your keystrokes. I think I've seen that nickname express anti-consumer, pro-corporate, freedom-violating viewpoints in dozens of different threads on a pretty wide variety of topics at this point. Not once have I seen them take the pro-consumer stance.
I am not a lobbyist, but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society and I am familiar with the common arguments and strategies people try and use to undermine it and sow distrust.
Refusing to send all your private data to the US to benefit their megacorps, using the tax payers' money, is not "perfection". It is the only reasonable and legal choice.
A 10% goal would be a good first step. Now excuse me while I read some tea leaves to find out if my trains will be on time tomorrow ( spoiler: they wont).
I love how just ordering a ticket is already a minefield for anyone not aware of how crappy german services are integrated. Pick one route, you will get a list of fully customized tickets that cover everything you need, pick another and you will get a list of tickets that will get you fined unless you carefully read through each and pick both a ticket that comes close to what you need and buy more tickets to cover any additional options.
The only thing near 100% perfection when it comes to german services is the full assery with which they are implemented.
Some time ago my "25% DB Card" ran out and was not active anymore, but the app did not display a warning. Even when buying a ticket from the app, it still had the "25% off" option activated by default.
Result: huge fine (something like 200 euros) on the train + I had to buy a completely new ticket (another 100+ euros) because the ticket I had bought ( which was 75% of original price) was considered completely invalid. I tried in all possible ways to get this fine reduced, as it was an honest mistake and arguably caused by their UX, but they did not budge.
I hate hate hate Deutsche Bahn with a passion, yet I still use it cause I'm an idiot who doesn't want to fly for short routes.
Taxpayer money project being tied to a dependency on Apple google is 100% counter what that money should be used for.
You are copy pasting a “correct” argument against eu bureaucracy in the absolute wrong space
But things not in the launch can easily be deprioritized as budget issues indefinitely. “Oh why spend the money adding support for just a few people??” will be the line moving forward.
It would be cheaper to just buy all of the outliers a bottom of the barrel Android phone for them to use with the tax money.
Yes just like it’s cheaper to just provide people who can’t afford a phone in the US a phone by taxing other cell phone users - and I don’t have a problem with that.
And force them into the Google surveillance, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261
[flagged]
It really doesn't matter. When you power on an android smartphone with google play installed for the first time you are presented with a gate screen that asks you to consent to google's privacy policy. You can't use the phone without accepting. (for example https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-wi...)
Using smartphones with such a setup should not become required by a European government on a fundamental level.
It really does. Just calling everything racism makes racism acceptable to a lot of people.
Telemetry/tracking feels a more appropriate wording than “surveillance”. Exaggeration (in case it was one, not sure) also does not make an argument more compelling – quite the apposite with me at least.
And I use AdGuardHome, uBlock, VPNs, etc. I HATE tracking. But it’s not what the Chinese government does to their citizens for example, it’s not comparable.
So please tell us what the difference is.
With surveillance a person gets surveilled with telemetry a person doesn't. Telemetry is collecting information about the operation of the device. The goal of telemetry is to understand how the device is operating where with surveillance it is about seeing what a person is doing.
The types of data that's collected for these two purposes have a significant overlap.
Sufficiently detailed telemetry is indistinguishable from surveillance because even if the goal isn't to target you right now, they will still have the secondary option of going back and inspecting all that data you sent them if they ever are interested in you. Another secondary use of telemetry is selling it to someone else to squeeze out a bit more money. There's no downside to doing this, so any business that collects a lot of varied telemetry and likes making money might as well do it. And once the data is in the hands of adtech businesses, it becomes a whole lot more like tracking you personally than just collecting some data for development. In Google's case, you don't even need to hand it over to anyone else, everything stays in-house.
Do you imply that it's not possible for the US intelligence agencies to request this data from google per person of interest and deliver some information from the metadata?
I heavily doubt that.
What does it matter in practice? Do you seriously think Google, the targeted advertisement company, does not use that Telemetry for targeted advertisements?
Yes, I do seriously think that Google does not use anonymous telemetry for ad targeting.
Do you have any reason to think this? Why would Google refuse to earn more money?
Are you a lobbyist for Google, Apple, Meta, or the adtech industry? Because if you aren't, you are parroting their bullshit.
Save your keystrokes. I think I've seen that nickname express anti-consumer, pro-corporate, freedom-violating viewpoints in dozens of different threads on a pretty wide variety of topics at this point. Not once have I seen them take the pro-consumer stance.
The pro consumer standpoint is overly represented on this platform so often I can simply upvote points I agree with.
I am not a lobbyist, but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society and I am familiar with the common arguments and strategies people try and use to undermine it and sow distrust.
>but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society
Ok, so you're trolling then.
Genuinely curious to hear what great value you think is being delivered to society by adtech.
Any articles highlighting the great value?
> I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society
good one, very funny.
This is not about 100% perfection at launch, this is about civil equality. Launching without broad support for use cases creates a two-tier society.
Refusing to send all your private data to the US to benefit their megacorps, using the tax payers' money, is not "perfection". It is the only reasonable and legal choice.
A 10% goal would be a good first step. Now excuse me while I read some tea leaves to find out if my trains will be on time tomorrow ( spoiler: they wont).
surely 10% of DB digital offerings work as expected, just not the 10% that is essential for train travel.
I love how just ordering a ticket is already a minefield for anyone not aware of how crappy german services are integrated. Pick one route, you will get a list of fully customized tickets that cover everything you need, pick another and you will get a list of tickets that will get you fined unless you carefully read through each and pick both a ticket that comes close to what you need and buy more tickets to cover any additional options.
The only thing near 100% perfection when it comes to german services is the full assery with which they are implemented.
So much hate.
Some time ago my "25% DB Card" ran out and was not active anymore, but the app did not display a warning. Even when buying a ticket from the app, it still had the "25% off" option activated by default.
Result: huge fine (something like 200 euros) on the train + I had to buy a completely new ticket (another 100+ euros) because the ticket I had bought ( which was 75% of original price) was considered completely invalid. I tried in all possible ways to get this fine reduced, as it was an honest mistake and arguably caused by their UX, but they did not budge.
I hate hate hate Deutsche Bahn with a passion, yet I still use it cause I'm an idiot who doesn't want to fly for short routes.