One thing odd, maybe just to me, is why OpenAI has been stuffing its ranks with former Facebookers who are known to juice growth, find edges, and keep people addicted. They have little background in getting enterprises to buy into a product. Simo herself ran the Facebook app. That organization’s genius is consumer engagement: behavioral hooks, dopamine loops, the relentless optimization of the feed. You can see that in the recent iterations of ChatGPT. It has become such a sycophant, and creates answers and options, that you end up engaging with it. That’s juicing growth. Facebook style.
People say OpenAI is burning money and is on the verge of collapse. The same people will say OpenAI building an ads business on ChatGPT is "enshittifcation". These people are quite insufferable, no offense to the many who are exactly as I described.
So that’s why I am getting clickbaity last sentences in every response now at ChatGPT.
Things like ”If you want, I can also show a very fast Photoshop-style trick in Krita that lets you drag-copy an area in one step (without copy/paste). It’s hidden but extremely useful.”
Every single chat now has it. Not only the conversational prompt with “I can continue talking about this”, but very clickbaity terms like: almost nobody knows about this, you will be surprised, all VIPs are now using this car, do you want to know which it is? Etc
I find -again- Claude (web) here outstanding & very comfortable:
In most of my discussions throughout the day, it doesnt ask any "follow up" questions at the end. Very often it says thingslike: "you have two options: A - ..... and B - while the one includes X and the other Y..."
But this is was OP underlined: Claude is popular amongst businesses, most "non-tech" people dont even know that it exists.
Don't worry, claude will follow soon enough. It's not like anthropic faces different financial pressures than openai.
In case of Anthropic I just expect them to raise prices sky-high :-D
What would be the price at which you would stop subscribing? Im in tech, so I would willing to pay around up to 100 - 120 USd per month, Id guess (Im currently onthe 20 USD plan, which is supercheap and contains enough tokens currently)
But most private users ("at home") would not pay 100 USD+ per month? Spotify is around ~ 240/250 USD per year
Private users can switch to kimi. Model performs basically the same on programming tasks and is 10x cheaper. Why pay for a fat subscription when you can get an equivalent product for less?
Same here. “Do you want the one useful tip related to this topic that most people miss? It’s quite surprising.”
If it were so useful, just tell me in the first place! If you say “Yes” then it’s usually just a regurgitation of your prior conversation, not actually new information.
This immediately smelled of engagement bait as soon as the pattern started recently. It’s omnipresent and annoying.
Yes, ChatGPT just recently started to add these engagement phrased follow-ups; “If you want, I can also show you one very common sign people miss that tells you…”
You can tell it not to do this in your personalized context.
The model doesn’t always obey it, but 80% of the time it’s worked for me.
This and also constantly saying stupid things like “yes that is a great observation and that’s how the pros do it for this very reason!” for a specific question that doesn’t apply to anything anyone else is doing
This is not just OpenAI though. I don’t think this is new in general for these AI chat apps. Claude at the very least asks a question as the last part of its responses I believe every time.
Those "Prompt-YES-baity" last sentences are somehow counterproductive.
> One thing odd, maybe just to me, is why OpenAI has been stuffing its ranks with former Facebookers who are known to juice growth, find edges, and keep people addicted
There is a very simple answer for this: that’s how leadership ranks work in SV. When one “leader” moves from Company A to Company B, a lot of existing employees are pushed out or sidelined, and the ranks are filled with loyalists from previous companies. Sometimes this works out, but a lot of time it doesn’t and it stays that way until another “leader” is brought in. What’s good for the company doesn’t matter unless there clear incentives and targets lined out for them.
AI is ubiquitous to the point where it's permeating almost every desk job in the world. Even those who don't work are using AI to help them find work, research health problems, ask questions about their daily life. I can't think of anything else since the invention of the internet that has had this much of an impact on people's lives.
People will have to pay for this. I don't see it being free for long other than a few chats a day. If most people in the world are paying 10-200 bucks a month then AI companies will make money, and I doubt they will need to rely much on ads at all.
Anecdotally I know approximately zero 'normal' (non-tech) people who are intentionally using generative AI, several who have been badly misled by Google's AI summaries, and quite a few who are vehemently anti-AI (usually artists and writers).
(Except when mandated by their employers, which nobody is happy about or finds particularly useful.)
Every single person I know outside of my profession is using it, including all relatives of all ages. Even if it's at the top of the google search results :)
Or people are just using as much because it is free.
On the other hand, costs are getting lower with time.
Sort of how now I have an unlimited 5G data plan for like 10 dollars, and in 2011 I didn't even have Internet on my phone. This is happening also with AI.
> I can't think of anything else since the invention of the internet that has had this much of an impact on people's lives.
If you reach a bit farther back, there's opium, an impactful product with limitless demand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
The worst are the ones who say things like “OpenAI only has 5% paying users!” As if that’s a really bad number. That is the same ratio YouTube, the world’s largest media company, has. And ChatGPT has like 800m users after only a few years of existence.
And “once they sell ads, they’ll lose all their users!” As if that happened to FB, Google, YouTube, or Instagram…
Some people are really rooting for the downfall of OpenAI that will simply not happen, and their rage makes them utterly unreasonable.
> And “once they sell ads, they’ll lose all their users!” As if that happened to FB, Google, YouTube, or Instagram…
Don't all those examples have network effects as a moat? As in, once the userbase is in, they lose quite a lot of value by switching to a competitor.
What value does a ChatGPT user lose by switching to a competitor?
Do you really believe ChatGPT will lose significant users?
Do you really believe that in your heart of hearts? Or are you trying to be the HN comment contrarian?
> Do you really believe ChatGPT will lose significant users?
I didn't say I believed that, I said that the reasons provided (for people to stick with it) were, to me, insufficient reasons.
The examples of people sticking with a product undergoing enshittification are not representative of the type of product that ChatGPT is. Those other products you mentioned had a strong moat - network effects.
Users had to stick with them, or lose their network.
AI Chat is, almost by definition, a non-network product. When you switch you don't lose updates from your friends, you don't lose subscribers to your channel, you don't lose your followers.
So, what exactly does someone lose when switching from AI Chat $FOO to AI Chat $BAR? Those saved conversations aren't exactly worth much, those "memories" that the Chat AI stored about you aren't worth much either (I was surprised at how many people thought those saved chats didn't contribute to the responses they get in the current chat).
I just can’t imagine anyone really bothering to switch, tbh. Even for a less enshittified product. For a better product, sure. Like if Google hadn’t rolled out Gemini in Search, ChatGPT would’ve crushed them. But not because of lack of ads in ChatGPT, because it was a better search product.
Google Search doesn’t have a network effect right? And people still tolerate their ads… they have 90% marketshare.
People still tolerate Netflix and Hulu ads right?
I think the only people that really care about enshittificafion are a few HN commenters and not broadly represented in the population.
Even at my company, our testing shows no drop in usage as we roll out ads.
> Google Search doesn’t have a network effect right?
In this specific case it does :-
1. People go to google because it is more likely to have the result they are looking for[1],
2. So, people can't search elsewhere, because the network of sites are on google and they lose that if they switch.
--------------------
[1] Well, until recently, anyway. Still, sites prioritise and optimise for Google search ranking above all other indexes.
> And “once they sell ads, they’ll lose all their users!” As if that happened to FB, Google, YouTube, or Instagram…
Enshittification only works for the middleman in a two-sided market, which is what those things are. LLMs are a commodity, so their path to monopoly profit is very different.
I will check back on this comment in a year to see who was right.
The only people that care about enshittification are a few crazies on HN.
Google has 90% market share.
> People say OpenAI is burning money and is on the verge of collapse. The same people will say OpenAI building an ads business on ChatGPT is "enshittifcation". These people are quite insufferable, no offense to the many who are exactly as I described.
I guess ignore the evidence of what I can see? If it provided the value everyone says it does, then charging the amount of what you would generate for ad revenue doesn't seem like a huge ask. But that's not the objective, is it? All the players want to become the defacto AI provider, and they know bait and switch tactics is all they have.
This sentiment comes off as an abusive relationship with the tech industry. Rewarding new ways to define a race to the bottom. We never demand or expect better, just gladly roll over and throw money at your new keeper. It's sad.
There are certain class of services that work best with ads driven business model. ChatGPT is one of them.
If Google and all other search engines locked search behind a subscription, it'd do a great disservice to the world since it means the poor can't use it.
Except that this product isn't comparable whatsoever to Youtube. Contrary to your point, there are whole businesses popping up because people are paying for search engines due to users feeling that Google's results are insufficient for serious search. I'm not sure this is a proper comparison.
100%. It’s about to become the sleaziest used car salesman the internet has ever seen.
In other words, they need more experts on enshittification.