Needing to punch holes in NAT is one of the most idiotic own-goals in the entire field of networking.
NAT is effectively your router doing DHCP with a 17-bit suffix (16-bit port + 1 bit for UDP vs TCP) to each of your applications and then not telling you the address it gave you or how long it is good for (which is what a regular DHCP lease does). This is in addition to it, most likely, already doing regular DHCP and allocating you a IP address that it does tell you about, but which is basically worthless since routing to just that prefix without the hidden suffix goes into a black hole.
If you could just ask your router for a lease on a chunk of IP+NAT addresses that you could allocate to your applications and rotate them as they expire, you would not need this horrifying mess.
The router would just need to maintain the last-leg routing table (what a concept, a router doing routing with routing tables) just like it already does DHCP.
The applications would have short-term stable addresses that they could just tell their peers and just directly tell the router/firewall to block anybody except the desired peer short-term address.
> If you could just ask your router for a lease on a chunk of IP+NAT addresses
The “just” is doing a lot of lifting there. I’m glad the various port mapping protocols didn’t really take off and it looks like IPv6 is going to actually make it instead. Much less complexity in most parts of the stack and network.
It is always a mystery how people just randomly misinterpret what I write. At literally no point did I mention port mapping.
I am pointing out how the problem NAT “solves” is just dynamic address configuration. They have implemented a N+K bit address where the N-bit prefix is routed and allocated using IP and the low K-bits are routed and allocated like a custom fever dream.
You can just do it all the same way instead of doing it differently and worse for the low bits.
To be clear, the router should rewrite zero bits in the packet under the scheme I am describing just like how routers have no need to rewrite any bits when routing to a specific globally-routable IP address.
You get a lease for a /N+K address. /N routes to your router which routes the last K bits just like normal as if it had a /N-M to a /N route. This is a generic description of homogenous hierarchical routing.
If I understand it correctly, you're suggesting formalizing a way to make parts of the (host-specific) port canonically part of the network-wide address, no?
This still sounds like a very bad mixing of layers, even if done in a perfectly standardized and uniform way.
> It is always a mystery how people just randomly misinterpret what I write.
If this is intended literally and not as a general complaint: My main problem of understanding your suggestion is that I don't know what you mean by "IP+NAT address". NAT is a translation scheme, not an address.
Maybe it would be clearer if you could provide an example?
I did provide a example:
> You get a lease for a /N+K address. /N routes to your router which routes the last K bits just like normal as if it had a /N-M to a /N route.
> This still sounds like a very bad mixing of layers, even if done in a perfectly standardized and uniform way.
No, I am describing a generalization of IP to arbitrary concatenated routing prefixs.
NAT has the same problems as if we lived in a alternate world where we decomposed IPv4 into 4 8-bit layers and then used a different protocol for each layer. That is obviously stupid because the subdivision of a /8 into /16s and a /16 into /24s is fractally similar. You can just use the same protocol 4 times. Or even better, use one protocol (i.e IP) that just handles arbitrary subdivision.
In the IPv4 (no NAT) world your application has a 49-bit address. Your router is running a DHCPv4 server and allocates your computer a /32 and your computer is “running” a DHCPvPort server that allocates a 17-bit prefix to your applications.
In the IPv4+NAT world your application has a 49-bit address. Your router is “running” a DHCPv4+Port server and allocates your applications a /49, but only tells them their /32 and then rewrites the packets because the applications do not know their address because the stupid router did not tell them.
In good world your application has a 49-bit address. Your router is “running” a DHCPv4+Port server and allocates your applications a /49 and tells them their /32 prefix and 17-bit segment. No packet rewriting is necessary.
Your router could also choose to allocate your computer a /32 subnet and leave DHCPvPort to your computer. Or it could give your computer a /31 if you have 8 interfaces. Or a /34 as a /32 subnet with 2-bit port prefix. Each node routes as much or as little routing prefix as it understands/cares about.
This is a generalization of IP that can handle arbitrary-length, arbitrarily-concatenated routing in a completely uniform manner and all the pieces are basically already there, just over-specialized.
The original SOCKS proxy specification was something like this. You'd LD_PRELOAD a library that would make the application think it was running directly on the proxy server, and it supported both connecting outbound and listening.
I didn’t see it as mysterious. 25 years ago, the problem as stated went through lots of consensus to become IPv6. It took a few years for SLAAC to emerge. But we don’t need it to be homogeneous; the router advertises different feature levels via ICMPv6.
NAT allocates ports. If you reserve a port, that's old good port forwarding.
Assuming IPv6 kills NAT is optimistic, plenty of orgs still stack private addressing and firewalls on top.
Firewalls aren't nearly as bad as NAT.
Basically the same thing. If you legitimately need to establish a connection then put a firewall rule in, whether that needs nat or pat is a function of your available addresses.
If you are tying to work around your firewall because it isn’t yours, that’s not a legitimate use.
Love it when random people tell me whether my use case is legitimate or not without apparently even knowing it exists!
Take mobile data connections, for example: Most people don't want to pay for metered (by the byte) inbound traffic they didn't ask for that also drains their battery, but do want to be able to establish P2P connections for lower latency VoIP etc.
This is a firewall that's definitionally "not theirs", but that still also serves their interests, yet usually doesn't offer any user-accessible management interface.
So may I please traverse this firewall now, or is my use case still illegitimate?
If you are trying to break through a firewall you don’t own then that’s not legitimate.
If you are buying firewall as a service then request a user interface or change your service provider.
Are you even acknowledging my example? Where does it exist in your bimodal model of reality of "my firewall" and "somebody else's firewall"?
What provider would you suggest somebody wanting to make VoIP calls on their smartphone switch to that allows port forwarding of the kind you describe? And which popular VoIP app would support statically forwarded ports like that?
P2P traffic is illegitimate according to you? Like Skype calls? You think Skype should not exist? (Well it doesn't exist any more, but whatever replaced it)
You're assuming that the firewall was configured correctly or that the firewall admin is cooperative. That's a big ask.
On the other hand, there is plenty of badly written networked software. I bet most of the networked software developers have no idea how to correctly plumb their software. They just open whatever connection, e.g. sockets, their OS provides and just run with it without care of the underlying layers. The OSI model theory in fact encourages this ignorance.
Why not use plain IPv6 instead?
Even with IPv6 you still might have stateful firewalls allowing only for outbound connection at both ends (e.g. a CPE a.k.a. “WiFi router”) and to establish communication you’d need to punch a hole in those firewalls.
That’s true we won’t get rid of hole-punching with IPv6. But at least it will get rid of TURN.
The hole punching is so much simpler because you don't need to guess your own address and port - you just know it
V6 adoption has reached 46.82%[1]. So it is increasingly viable for this.
[1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
it's been already done ISPs just don't properly implement it (NAT-PMP and it's relatives)
If only router manufacturers could be trusted to implement UPnP safely, then none I'd this bullshit would be necessary.
At least with IPv6 this crap becomes a little easier because you no longer have randomized source ports (which this article just ignores because some devices indeed maintain the same source port) and the IP address contains all the routing information you need. A simple simultaneous open is all you need.
If you use UDP transport you don't even need to try to make it simultaneous.
Hole punching is doing exactly what you describe, just in a non-standardized way.
We could have a standard for doing that directly at the NAT box level instead of relying on a third party STUN server, it simply didn't happen (and in fairness, the benefits would be quite minimal).