This is not primarily competing with the surface line of laptops, this is mostly competing with chromebooks which dominate schools. That's a completely different segment of devices.
This is not primarily competing with the surface line of laptops, this is mostly competing with chromebooks which dominate schools. That's a completely different segment of devices.
I am in education and speak to others at the (US) national level on a near-daily basis. This doesn't compete with Chromebooks in schools at all.
- Chromebooks in EDU cost approximately $290 (+- $10) per unit.
- The Neo costs $499 per unit for schools.
- For the cost of 10 Neos, I can buy 17 Chromebooks. Yes, this is a numbers game. The goal is every student has a device.
- Schools using Chromebooks to log in. If you want reliable Google logins on macOS, you have an additional big spend up front, along with per-seat licensing costs.
- This doesn't even factor in MDM and app cost comparisons.
I saw this today: https://www.reddit.com/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid/comments/1rk3t...
If apple products are even a tiny bit more durable I wouldn't be surprise if it's more cost effective to switch to the neo for a lot of institutions
While I was in high school, as a punishment for a fake "hacking" prank [0], I had to spend half of my lunch breaks with the school IT guy for two weeks as he went around and fixed the damage students were doing to the school computers.
There wasn't actually THAT much going on and we mostly just sat in his office and chatted, but when he did have to deal with something, it was absurd the vandalism that happened. One kid had unplugged a mouse and managed to jam the plug into the floppy drive. The IT guy was like "It takes talent to be this much of a piece of shit" as he had to disassemble the case to get it out.
When it comes to issuing laptops to public school students, I'm torn. On one hand, people need computer skills, but on the other, I just don't think many students can be trusted with a piece of equipment costing hundreds of dollars. Hell, how many people can't even own a personal cell phone without somehow shattering the screen in just a few months?
[0] I had created a two-page slide deck with a black background and white text, then filled both slides with the same text that made it look like a DOS prompt and that Windows had been deleted. It had a C:\> prompt, and on one slide, there was an underscore after the prompt. I then made the slide show auto-play and loop, making the underscore blink, which made it look like an actual prompt. Keep in mind, these were Macs. There was no "C" drive, and certainly no Windows. A teacher insisted I broke the computer, despite showing that pressing any key ended the show, took me to the Principal's office, who gave me my punishment. My first time talking to the IT guy, he was like "you did what now?" and I showed him, and he thought it was funny as hell. Honestly, my "punishment" ended up being pretty fun. That was all 25 years ago. I wish I remembered his name so I could look him up.
That's hilarious! I can only remember winnuke being a thing in the shared computer lab.
Not just durability, but ergonomics. My kids have crappy screens, literally the worst trackpad I’ve ever used, and awful keys that hurt my hands minutes after typing (but I go all day on my personal computer).
If schools are found to be neglecting a minimum standard of care by subjecting kids to hardware that causes long term physical issues, they would have wished they would spend a little more (it amortizes to about $20/student year difference the way our school district does it).
> Not just durability, but ergonomics.
Somehow while spending the most per capita of any nation on the planet, American schools are in a perpetual budget crunch. It's about getting internet access not whether the trackpad is good. You think a chromepad is crappy - have you ever tried to do something in Blackboard?
> If schools are found to be neglecting a minimum standard of care
They won't be. Pizza sauce is considered a vegetable.
An aside: Why do school board super-intendants and administration make more money than teachers themselves? I believe they shouldn't.
> Why do school board super-intendants and administration make more money than teachers themselves?
The more and less cynical explanations (and both play a role, IMO):
(1) Because individuals in those roles have closer relationships to the people that set the salaries than do individual teachers, and
(2) Because otherwise people with experience in education would continue as teachers and not seek roles as superintendents or other administrators (or seek the advanced degrees sought for those roles whose only financial payoff is greater competitiveness for those higher paying roles.)
> Why do school board super-intendants and administration make more money than teachers themselves?
A couple reasons:
1. Because usually, superintendents and the administration are responsible and accountable for a lot more moving parts than teachers are. Aside from the many kids each teacher teachers, which leads us to point #2.
2. There is a lot more supply of teachers than demand. If a teacher doesn't like their objectively meager pay, they can quit. There are 10 applicants lined up waiting to take their position.
> I believe they shouldn't.
This is generally handled at your city level. Organize your like-minded constituents to lobby the board?
Are you actually asking why management makes more money than workers?
I think my school solves this by telling the parents to buy ‘something’ for the kids, as long as it has a webbrowser and keyboard.
Our district had BYOD and just got rid of it this year. We used it because the teachers couldn’t manage keeping kids off games or YouTube on their Chromebooks during class. Even then, personal devices could not be used for state testing.
Chromebooks don’t have a durability problem. I doubt the MacBook is any more durable, even with an all metal construction - if anything, that probably makes it worse at absorbing impact than nice soft bendy plastic.
This is just how students treat laptops, and a more expensive unit only makes the problem worse.
Actually metal's pretty bendy when compared to plastic (most anyway...mmv based upon formula).
The metal construction is what prompted me to switch over to macbook pro's back in the day. The plastic dell laptops i used to use couldn't handle the abuse that it took during all of the travel i was doing at the time (cases kept cracking). I switched to a pro and was rewarded later with it surviving a 5 foot fall from a car rental counter. It bent part of the corner, but the screen was still in tact and it continued to work well enough to get me through the trip. I suspect the plastic alternative would have been toast.
Having kids today and seeing how rough they are with their toys, I'm not confident that a plastic laptop would survive them long.
Metal is technically more elastic than an elastic band. With a Young’s modulus of 69 GPa for aluminum versus just 2 GPa for ABS, metal has the "memory" to snap back from significant pressure. Plastic, true to its name, is far more likely to hit its limit and stay permanently deformed. (That’s why metal bars are used to provide “flexibility” to buildings. Concrete provides the strength)
Kids are given those for free, so there's no responsibility for them to keep them in good condition. It would take a restructuring of laptops within the school system to kids/families having a joint ownership over the laptop to stop them intentionally destroying them. Even then, there are complications like kids that will absolutely destroy anothers' for fun.
And knowing how laptop makers treat keyboard repairs, the keyboard switches are easy to damage beyond repair and expensive to replace, making them a target for "problem" kids in school districts with a dysfunctional penal system.
My kids have (insanely shitty) chromebooks from school and we are absolutely responsible for the cost if they break. We have to sign a release at the beginning of the year. Whether or not they’d be able to collect from the vast majority of families is a different question, granted. But the responsibility is there.
In practice, there's a huge difference in responsibility between buying and sending your kid with a laptop and signing a paper that says you're responsible if it breaks. I'd also guess it depends on where you go to school.
My child's school provided Chromebook was broken from the beginning, so clearly they're not paying that much attention.
> Kids are given those for free, so there's no responsibility for them to keep them in good condition.
Very often they aren't (the school devices are in-school resources that aren't given to the kids any more than their desks are) and anything the kids have out of school is bought by the parents (and even if they are given the computers by the school, usually the replacement costs is on the parents if there is damage). But, either way, grade school kids are, on average, irresponsible as a matter of cognitive development (its a big part of why children are treated differently than adults legally.)
> school districts with a dysfunctional penal system.
A school district that can be described as having a “penal system” is, ipso facto, dysfunctional.
Who pays for the laptop when the school bully pours water on a kid's backpack? Or a kid has their bag in a seat and someone sits on it accidentally?
What happens when a kid's laptop is broken, regardless of the reason, and the family is unable to afford to repair it? Are we going to run into a similar situation that we had when kids couldn't pay for school lunch? Do teachers write "pay for a new laptop" in sharpie on the kid's arm for the parent?
A child's educational environment is a lot more chaotic, violent, and uncontrolled compared to an office environment. If you're issuing my child a $600 laptop and making me responsible for any damages, guess what's going to be kept at home in a secure location?
Making a child responsible for securing a laptop in an insecure environment isn't accountability, it's just a form of imprisonment.
What happens when a backpack full of paper books is destroyed? When I was a kid, we were charged between $50-100 for a book that was written in or destroyed. I bet these days it would be $200 each. Yeah we were running around with $500-600 of books in our backpacks all the time.
1) bully or bullys insurance 2) whoever sat on it Alternatively: Apple care? :)
That's a big if. Kids are little engines of chaos and destruction. The Neo might not be more durable, just more expensive.
I don't think institutions will care much about the enhanced durability since they treat laptops as disposable units anyway. Apple can only complete if they provide bulk deals which bring the overall cost in line with chromebooks.
No, we really care about durability. The amount of damage is crazy. So many units are damaged that it would be cost-prohibitive to dispose and replace them.
The screenshot in that Reddit post more or less looks like ours. Schools generally repair these, if they have the technicians. And everyone is cannibalizing parts out of last generation models. It's like a Jawa shop.
> Apple can only compete if they provide bulk deals which bring the overall cost in line with chromebooks.
I've never seen, nor heard of Apple providing competitive prices, even in quantities of ~10,000 units. They haven't even gotten close and they've largely given up on the idea of Macs as a standard K12 school device. ~$250 iPads are still strong in low primary grades and special education, though.
I worked in my High Schools repair room in Junior year, and the Jawa shop is an apt description haha
Can confirm Apple gave up on education. If they really cared you'd be able to have multiple accounts/profiles on iPad, and that's still not a thing that exists.
I did a major PTA fundraiser to buy iPads for our classrooms and they were pretty much never used because of this.
> you'd be able to have multiple accounts/profiles on iPad, and that's still not a thing that exists.
It does exist, it just requires the iPad to be managed via MDM, which most schools would have (and should implement if they don't have it). JamF, Mosyle, Business Essentials, InTune and probably any other MDM can put an iPad into shared iPad mode with multiple profiles.
Have you seen the classroom app? It allows for multiple profiles on an iPad. I've never used it, so I don't know how well it works.
https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/shared-ipad-overv...
I could see the Neo as a viable option for teenage students. The high school I attended distributed a Chromebook to each student and hardware faults were far more common than student inflicted damage. Low build quality in everything from the hinges to the logic boards. Most students feared seeking a replacement device when theirs would break without having done anything wrong. A device with higher build quality and software longevity has the potential to save these institutions a reasonable sum of money in the long run.
Younger students on the other hand, Chromebooks remain the way to go. Most of the time, kids'll win in a race between their destructive tendencies and crappy hardware giving out.
> I could see the Neo as a viable option for teenage students.
100% agreed. My statements weren't meant to indicate the Neo wasn't viable. They were meant to state that the Neo isn't going to replace Chromebooks in schools (as far as being District-purchased).
> The high school I attended distributed a Chromebook to each student and hardware faults were far more common than student inflicted damage. Low build quality in everything from the hinges to the logic boards.
Build quality has been steadily improving over the years. It's all still budget (target ~$290), but is more and more durable with each new generation.
> This doesn't compete with Chromebooks in schools at all.
Of course, it does. The price difference is small enough now that the Neo is in the running. There's no doubt the build quality is going to be much better than a Chromebook.
I worked in education for 20+ years; that $499 is just the starting price; a school or school district that buys them in quantity is going to get an even better price.
Sure, a Chromebook is better than nothing, and if you’re an impoverished school district, you may have no choice but to go with Chromebooks. But if there's an opportunity to get Macs at this price point, most school districts are going to take it.
Don't underestimate Apple's sales and support infrastructure. Many of the schools in the US are in areas with Apple retail stores, where sales and support work out of.
It's hard to imagine a school committee going with Chromebooks instead of Mac Neos for a little more money and likely better support. The parents aren't IT experts, but they know Apple is a trusted brand, and Macs are "better".
>a school or school district that buys them in quantity is going to get an even better price.
Citation? I've read and heard others say this is the opposite of the truth, that Apple never gives bulk discounts. Heck, there's someone in this very discussion saying the same with actual prices paid in their comment showing real first hand experience and yet you come in here with a hand wavy unsupported claim that Apple gives breaks for bulk buys.
Even so I imagine your average person needing something for education would consider both. The Neo may cost more but from my past experience of Apple stuff they will likely be better made.
Certainly possible. But, in the US consider that Google and "one-to-one" Chromebooks are generally dominating and the curriculum more or less requires extensions and setting.
As an example, my kids try to do school work on one of the house Macs, but there's too many roadblocks so they just use their Chromebooks.
I used to buy my kids Chromebooks for school, but, since the pandemic, the school issues them, so I haven't bought any since.
> Apple stuff they will likely be better made
It depends on what you mean. Apple uses higher quality parts and is more sleek.
Chromebooks are more durable, take more abuse, are very repairable, and parts are cheap and plentiful. These are keys to schools. We're at a point where schools cycle out old models and either keep a bunch around, or strip parts from them, because some parts are interchangeable between generations.
If the school is wealthy enough to provide free laptops, then you're right they're going to go for the cheapest option. But if the school expects the parents to provide laptops, then the parents are more likely to choose this.
So what segment does it target in your opinion? The "surface" market is minuscule and compared to the edu market irrelevant, the "vendor lock in" angle with the google logins can easily change over night as it did with microsoft.
> So what segment does it target in your opinion?
- Low end consumer
- College students
- People who have a desktop computer, but want a cheap portable for on-the-go.
> The "surface" market is minuscule
Probably so, but then again, I see a lot of Surface devices out and about and they are fairly popular with non-teacher education staff. While they aren't competing with Chromebooks or Apple on volume, I'd bet they're doing well.
Not having to make a Google login would be a big benefit to me. Google is getting their data early
Completely agree. I hate kids being stuck in a Google ecosystem. Apple’s classroom app is really good.
somewhat off topic, but I really am not sure that adding chromebooks to every school has made education better. hard to block youtube when they bring these home (I know you can, but the average person can't).
How long do those chrome books last though?
I reckon even an iPhone pro is better value than an average android phone. Same with iPad vs Android tablet.
Because they last 3 possibly 4 times longer. A decent Apple laptop purchased 4 years ago is still basically a top notch laptop. Build quality is amazing. Resale value is still very high.
> Because they last 3 possibly 4 times longer.
An iPhone Pro is 3 times more expensive than an average Android phone too. If you buy Android flagships after 2022, they also last 4-6 years.
> If you buy Android flagships after 2022, they also last 4-6 years.
The hardware lasts but they usually stop getting software updates after a few years, especially if they're not high-end models.
Last month, Apple released an update for the iPhone 8 and iPhone X [1]. The iPhone 8 was released September 2017. I seriously doubt 9-year old Android phones, even flagship models, are still getting software updates.
[1]: https://www.macrumors.com/2026/02/02/apple-releases-ios-16-7...
> Last month, Apple released an update for the iPhone 8 and iPhone X [1]. The iPhone 8 was released September 2017. I seriously doubt 9-year old Android phones, even flagship models, are still getting software updates.
How usable is an 8-year-old iPhone as a primary phone though? I agree that having 8 years of support is a good thing, but at that point the hardware is so degraded that it's not suitable for its original purpose anymore. At that point I'd rather have android just so I can root it and install Linux. Then again, with improvements to phones slowing down in recent years, this is becoming increasingly untrue.
Samsung's flagship Galaxy series get software support for 7 years. A, M, F mid-range and low end models get 6 years of software support. The worst case today for the most popular mid to low spec phones is twice the "a few years" you claim, which suggests you're out of touch with the changes in the industry over the last few years.
> The worst case today for the most popular mid to low spec phones is twice the "a few years" you claim, which suggests you're out of touch with the changes in the industry over the last few years.
Are you sure about that? Apparently nicer Android phones not getting updates for very long is real.
No Longer Receiving Updates
As of late 2024, the Pixel 3, 3a, 4, 4a, 5, and 5a series are all fully out of support. The Pixel 5 received Android 14 as its last OS update with a final security patch in October 2023, and the Pixel 5a concluded support in August 2024, also on Android 14. The Galaxy S20, S20+, and S20 Ultra received their final update in the form of the January 2025 security patch. After originally launching in 2020, Samsung had promised four years of software support for the S20 trio — three major OS upgrades (Android 10 to 13) and four years of security updates.On Their Last Legs (Security Updates Only, No More OS Upgrades)
These are still receiving quarterly security patches but will drop off soon:
- Galaxy S21 / S21+ / S21 Ultra — Final OS was Android 15; now on quarterly security patches only
- Galaxy S21 FE — Will receive Android 16 as its final major upgrade via One UI 8, after which it moves to quarterly patches with no further OS updates
- Pixel 6 / Pixel 6 Pro — Now updated to a 5-year support window, with final updates expected in October 2026
- Pixel 6a — Supported until at least July 2027
---
The main takeaway: if you're on a Samsung S20-era or Pixel 5a-or-older device, you're fully unprotected. The Galaxy S21 series and Pixel 6/7 families still have some runway left, though they're winding down.
[1]: Samsung Ends Software Updates for These Galaxy Phones in 2025 — https://r2.community.samsung.com/t5/Tech-Talk/Samsung-Ends-S...
[2]: These Google Pixel Phones Will Not Get Android 16 — https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/google-pixel-phones-not-...
[3]: How long will my Google Pixel be supported? – https://9to5google.com/2024/12/10/how-long-will-my-google-pi...
[4]: Galaxy S20 series software updates run dry as Samsung ends support* – https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/samsung-galaxy/galaxy-...
Physical durability will play a major factor here. If schools are expected to provide the Chromebooks then it will all boil down to the level of abuse/neglect the hardware can handle.
Replacing a low-resale value $250 Chromebook that is equally sensitive to being dropped, exposed to liquids, or having debris get into hinges and keyboards will be heavily favored over a $500 MB Neo. The Neo’s processor and storage may have better lifetime but it doesn’t mean anything if the equipment ends up bricked.
Schools in affluent areas may favor these for reasons you state. Judging on how students treat textbooks though should demonstrate how short the lifespan would turn out to be.
Framework might be appealing as well. Being able to have parts on hand that can easily be swapped out sounds a lot better/easier than dealing Apple repair practices. The Framework Laptop 12[0] starts at $549 and has touchscreen/pen options. But that price goes up to $799 to have it pre-built with an OS on it, which schools would want, unless building your laptop and installing the OS is part of the curriculum. I wonder if having the kids do this would make them take better care of it, because they had a hand it making it?
[0] https://frame.work/laptop12
> This doesn't even factor in MDM and app cost comparisons.
I would argue that Apple has a better MDM ecosystem if there are any kind of policy constraints beyond one laptop per child.
There used to be FleetSmith which was a very simple Apple-only MDM system.
It was great, very simple to use but still had all the features you needed.
They were acquired by Apple who then promptly killed the product.
Not every school is cash limited. Many schools have lots of money to invest in technology.
Some schools will gladly pay more.
Truth. I've seen some of them with carts full of MacBook Pros. But these schools are a small fraction of the overall population.
It should also be noted that Washington state schools are still generally heavily Microsoft and Windows, despite Google's dominance.
Similar to how MS helps their local schools, I think Apple does for schools in California.
Not to disagree too much with your assessment, one point stands out:
> The Neo costs $499 per unit for schools.
We don't actually know this. It does at the level individual student purchasing themselves, but I'd imagine there is a substantial bulk discount for educational establishments. That is not a new trend for Apple, it dates back to the Apple II.
I do because we asked Apple about Neo pricing.
We do because this is historically the norm. Schools pay roughly the same as the "college student" pricing, aside from the occasional deals they toss us.
The only problem with Chromebooks and the whole Google educational toolchain is it ruins school!
My kid is on it, every kid hates it and every teacher hates it. You just can't argue with the pricing. I'm amazed at how bad everything seems to old fashioned paper text books.
Every time I help my son I'm amazed how bad it all is. Horrible tiny screen that looks like is from 2000 and then the software is all designed for some Googler who has 2x 30" 5k displays. The usability is atrocious.
Chromebooks are the SaaS of hardware where the user is not the buyer. No one says “I would love to have a Chromebook at home” any more than they desire to run Salesforce at home.
A Chromebook at the same price point will get you similar if not better specs, 14" 16:10 FHD IPS display, convertible with touchscreen and pen input, backlit keyboard and 10h+ battery runtime.
The build quality of a $300 Chromebook is laughable.
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This is not competing against Chromebooks, which have very little reach outside of institutions. The Macbook Neo will likely have very widespread appeal for anyone looking for what used to be a netbook.
I'm not sure that's true given that Chromebooks can be had for one third the price.
It could compete well in both. Looks like Apple has a product that competes with Chromebooks on price and competes with Surface on performance at the same time. At least close enough on both counts to create headaches for anyone trying to sell either.
At this point the Macbook Neo is in competition with Chromebooks, Microsoft and the third party market for older Macbook Airs with M1s
It needs a touch screen for elementary schools kids. Fine for older kids.
We started using computers with keyboards in class in grade 2-3.
Current school laptops also have touchscreens for drawing and other activities. It’s a cheap feature.
Pen input is the one factor that forced one of my kids to a Windows laptop for school (a Surface Pro). It was a required feature for his school. Seeing how much he uses it for note taking, I get it. So yes, drawing is a key feature for schools.
Another school uses iPads with keyboards for the same purpose, so I'm not sure where the school market is for these. Maybe only older kids, but a lot of edu-tech is expecting some kind of touch/pen input.
wow. are elementary school kids using chromebooks? my kids is in pre-K this year. i dont know about the elementary school chromebook thing.
Yes, my kids all started using one in Kindergarten, although it took to 4th grade before my oldest started bringing home one every night.
They take standardized tests on it. Questions have a button to speak the question. Same with answers.
It might be aimed at Chromebooks, but it’s also a low-end Surface killer.
The only thing I don’t like is the 8GB memory. And it could have the black keyboards of the other Apples.
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