Just to be clear, ordering a violent mob thousands strong to march on the capitol and "fight like hell" to interfere with the peaceful transition of power is also what a real insurrection attempt looks like.
Just to be clear, ordering a violent mob thousands strong to march on the capitol and "fight like hell" to interfere with the peaceful transition of power is also what a real insurrection attempt looks like.
As does attempting to manipulate election officials to change the vote outcome. If not for one person rejecting this coercion the coup would have been successful.
Even if he had done that, which he didn’t, that’s not what an insurrection looks like. He also told them to go home.
Have you read or watched/listened to his entire speech?
I genuinely do not believe any reasonable human being can look at just the speech in context - much less his statements surrounding it in the months leading up - and argue that he didn't get exactly what he wanted in good faith.
Yeah! Like if we all just agree to pretend the one statement in isolation was the entire event he looks pretty reasonable!
Why do people keep pointing out that months of lying about electoral fraud may have encouraged people to take some extreme actions? SMH, that's not what he said on the day! Well, at least not on that day within the few second window of what I'd like you to consider!
Innocent until proven guilty.
Legally, yes. But everything was well-documented and publicized. As sentient creatures we can use our own eyes, ears, and judgement to come to our own conclusions in advance or lieu of a formal court ruling.
I suggest you re-read the Constitution. The First Amendment protects people from any negative repercussions whatsoever resulting from their free exercise of certain kinds of speech.
This is such an absolutely wild and demonstrably incorrect interpretation, I can only assume it's satire
I forgot that satire was dead.
Poe’s Law. Personally I thought that might be what you were doing, but I wasn’t sure.
Or, alternatively, you're just bad at it.
First off, the majority of them were found guilty in court - https://web.archive.org/web/20240108135705/https://www.justi...
Also, for the rest of them that accepted a pardon, that also necessities an admission of guilt - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/236/79/#89-90
So yes, they were guilty of insurrection even if they escaped punishment.
According to the bipartisan House select committee that investigated the incident, the attack was the culmination of a plan by Trump to overturn the election.
Within 36 hours, five people died: including a police officer who died of a stroke a day after being assaulted by rioters and collapsing at the Capitol.
Many people were injured, including 174 police officers. Four officers who responded to the attack died by suicide within seven months. Damage caused by attackers exceeded $2.7 million. It is the only attempted coup d'état directed towards the Federal government in the history of the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito...
The “within 36 hours” is dishonest sleight of hand to avoid the fact that only one person died that day — Ashli Babbitt, an Air Force veteran that was shot by police.
If we want to include additional details, perhaps add the ones that explain why she was shot (Violently breaking into an area being secured by capitol police that directly lead to the congresscritters) and not irrelevant ones like her status as a veteran.
After Renee Good was killed, I re-evaluated my opinion on Ashli Babbitt's killing and I have more sympathy for her now.
I have some sympathy, but not nearly as much.
In one case, we have a person in their home town, caught up in a situation that was not of her own making.
Babbitt directly put herself in the situation of traveling to the capital, breaking in to it, ignoring direct and lawful orders from police officers, moving towards people that the police had every reason to believe were likely targets of violence, after once again physically breaking in to an area.
They're not really comparable situations, IMO. But I don't like people dying when it is avoidable.
Because you also want to break into the Capitol?
One was killed on the street, as she was leaving a protest, the other was killed while trying to break into a secure area of the capital during an attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power after an election.
I think your admission says a lot more about you than it does about either of the two women.
I included it because I think it's a counter-balance to how framing and selective information disclosure has been used to shape perception; in many accountings, you either see "five deaths within 36 hours", or just "one death", but neither mentioning the only death that day was a civilian veteran that was among the rioters.
I assume that's because, in this context, a rioter dying is less shocking than a police officer, politician, or other civilian, and "veteran" is more likely to humanize or engender empathy. I'd guess that's also why you objected so strongly to its inclusion, and sought to reframe the perceptive field.
It is a transparent attempt to specifically engender empathy while also leaving out the relevant details about what she did to get shot.
If you were including the full details, I would say nothing. When you leave out the single most important pieces of context and instead talk of her veteran status, it is obvious what your intent is.
It was an insurrection, and he should have been barred from rerunning by the 14th amendment, but come on with adding deaths to the event that were not the one dumbass chick.
It's even sillier after looking into it. Of the 4 people listed that died the same date as the insurrection attempt, 1 was shot (already mentioned), 1 died of overdosing on meth, and the other two both were over 50 and had heart attacks. Not to say being exceptionally out-of-shape or meth-addled has zero demographic connection to the riot, but...
It's really odd that the speaker of the house and the mayor of DC declined the president at the times request to deploy 10k to 20k national guard troops there. Also weird that there were 250 or so plain clothes FBI officers inside the capitol at the time as well. Along with Capitol Police have been filmed opening gates and doors for people to go through and in. Its almost like a lot of what has been written about what happened on that day isnt what happened.
We all watched it happen live, dude.