Jeep just had an OTA update cause the car to shut down on the highway (it is rumored).
Before we put computers in cars, we had the myriad small things that would break (stuck doors, stuck windows, failed seals, leaking gaskets), a continuous stream of recalls for low-probability safety issues, and the occasional Gremlin or Pinto.
My favorite example is the Hyundai Elantra. They changed the alloy used in one of the parts in the undercarriage. Tested that model to death for a year, as they do, but their proving ground is in the southern United States.
Several winters later, it turns out that road salt attacks the hell out of that alloy and people have wheels flying off their cars in the middle of the road.
Not really. Does the car still drive? That sounds like a software bug; hardly indicative that the entire car is held together with duct tape, but a pretty bad bug non the less.
So i can't remember the specifics or find any references, but many years ago i remember reading about a car (prius maybe?) that would shut off and lock the doors when pulling away from a stop. (Ex: stopped at a red light, when it turns green the car would go far enough to cut off in the middle of an intersection then trap everyone inside.)
More accurate: a mom-n-pop grocery store has its listing on Google Maps changed to PERMANENTLY CLOSED DUE TO TOXIC HEALTH HAZARDS because the mom-n-pop grocery store didn't submit Form 26B/Z to Google. There was never any health hazard, but now everyone thinks there is, and nobody can/will go there. The fact that Form 26B/Z exists at all is problematic, but what makes it terrible is the way it's used to punish businesses for not filling out a form they didn't know existed.
This is an excellent analogy because it is incumbent upon businesses to follow all the laws, including the ones they don't know about. That's one of the reasons "lawyer" is a profession.
Google doesn't have the force of law (it's in this context acting more like a Yelp: "1 star review --- our secret shopper showed up and the manager didn't give the secret 'we are not criminals' hand sign"), but the basic idea is the same: there is a complex web of interactions that can impact your online presence and experts in the field you can choose to hire for consulting or not.
Didn't used to be that way, but the web used to be a community of 100,000 people, not 5.6 billion. Everything gets more complicated when you add more people.
The other commenter's analogy of a small-business is better I think, the issue with the browser problem is that it doesn't hinder one person getting to one house, it hinders all persons getting to one place the owner _wants_ people to get to easily.
The browser issue can destroy a small business, one thing I think we can universally agree we don't want. If all of the people who come looking for it find it's being marked as malicious or just can't get there at all, they lose customers.
Worse yet, is that Google holds the keys because everyone uses Chrome, and you have to play their game by their rules just to keep breathing.
Here's the thing though: if someone else held the keys, the scenario would be the same unless there was no safe browsing protection. And if there were no safe browsing protection, we'd be trading one ill for another; small business owners facing a much steeper curve to compete vs. everyone being at more risk from malware actors.
I honestly don't immediately know how to weigh those risks against each other, but I'll note that this community likely underestimates the second one. Most web users are not nearly as tech- or socially-savvy as the average HN reader and the various methods of getting someone to a malware subdomain are increasingly sophisticated.
Yikes. I missed that. Makes sense it wasn't just the station it was tuned to but the particular data they broadcasted; insane there was no way to power reset the system into a good state.
regular cars?
Jeep just had an OTA update cause the car to shut down on the highway (it is rumored).
Before we put computers in cars, we had the myriad small things that would break (stuck doors, stuck windows, failed seals, leaking gaskets), a continuous stream of recalls for low-probability safety issues, and the occasional Gremlin or Pinto.
My favorite example is the Hyundai Elantra. They changed the alloy used in one of the parts in the undercarriage. Tested that model to death for a year, as they do, but their proving ground is in the southern United States.
Several winters later, it turns out that road salt attacks the hell out of that alloy and people have wheels flying off their cars in the middle of the road.
The Honda issue where setting a certain radio station, would brick the infotainment? That good enough?
> That good enough?
Not really. Does the car still drive? That sounds like a software bug; hardly indicative that the entire car is held together with duct tape, but a pretty bad bug non the less.
So i can't remember the specifics or find any references, but many years ago i remember reading about a car (prius maybe?) that would shut off and lock the doors when pulling away from a stop. (Ex: stopped at a red light, when it turns green the car would go far enough to cut off in the middle of an intersection then trap everyone inside.)
"This is Fine."
That's terrifying.
The browser still drives when Google throws up a safety warning.
It's just harder to drive to one house, and the homeowner is justifiably irritated about this.
More accurate: a mom-n-pop grocery store has its listing on Google Maps changed to PERMANENTLY CLOSED DUE TO TOXIC HEALTH HAZARDS because the mom-n-pop grocery store didn't submit Form 26B/Z to Google. There was never any health hazard, but now everyone thinks there is, and nobody can/will go there. The fact that Form 26B/Z exists at all is problematic, but what makes it terrible is the way it's used to punish businesses for not filling out a form they didn't know existed.
This is an excellent analogy because it is incumbent upon businesses to follow all the laws, including the ones they don't know about. That's one of the reasons "lawyer" is a profession.
Google doesn't have the force of law (it's in this context acting more like a Yelp: "1 star review --- our secret shopper showed up and the manager didn't give the secret 'we are not criminals' hand sign"), but the basic idea is the same: there is a complex web of interactions that can impact your online presence and experts in the field you can choose to hire for consulting or not.
Didn't used to be that way, but the web used to be a community of 100,000 people, not 5.6 billion. Everything gets more complicated when you add more people.
The other commenter's analogy of a small-business is better I think, the issue with the browser problem is that it doesn't hinder one person getting to one house, it hinders all persons getting to one place the owner _wants_ people to get to easily.
The browser issue can destroy a small business, one thing I think we can universally agree we don't want. If all of the people who come looking for it find it's being marked as malicious or just can't get there at all, they lose customers.
Worse yet, is that Google holds the keys because everyone uses Chrome, and you have to play their game by their rules just to keep breathing.
Here's the thing though: if someone else held the keys, the scenario would be the same unless there was no safe browsing protection. And if there were no safe browsing protection, we'd be trading one ill for another; small business owners facing a much steeper curve to compete vs. everyone being at more risk from malware actors.
I honestly don't immediately know how to weigh those risks against each other, but I'll note that this community likely underestimates the second one. Most web users are not nearly as tech- or socially-savvy as the average HN reader and the various methods of getting someone to a malware subdomain are increasingly sophisticated.
The road network is a much better analogy here.
Never heard of this. Link please?
Don't know about Honda, but there is this Mazda one [0] (Would not be surprised if it affected multiple vendors!)
[0] https://www.soundandvision.com/content/remembering-time-when...
Yikes. I missed that. Makes sense it wasn't just the station it was tuned to but the particular data they broadcasted; insane there was no way to power reset the system into a good state.
Admitting I'm old, but my HP-11C still gets pretty-regular use.
And judging by eBay prices, or the SwissMicros product line, I suspect I have plenty of company.