Installed trixie a few days ago and test driving it and it's been going very well. Coming from Ubuntu so it wasn't a big change but initially I went with Ubuntu many years ago due to its reputation in making Debian a more user-friendly distribution. I can say that my experience with trixie was quite friendly. This may have been the case for a few releases but I was invested in the Ubuntu platform so didn't see the need to switch.
Was bummed to see firefox at version 128 as I've been missing features from the more recent versions. I don't know how I'm going to address that yet as I prefer not to add external apt sources, if I can. This is on a desktop system so somewhat recent versions of software is desirable.
What do other people do for desktop systems? Go with testing/unstable or just another distro for desktops?
I work in the refurb division of an ewaste recycling company[0]. Due to the certifications we have (and the lack of MS licensing), we can't install Windows on anything we sell. I started off installing Debian on things I list, but switched to Mint. I've fallen in love with the OEM install option they have[1]. It sets up a pre-OOBE environment, letting me run things like fastfetch to get the system specs, then click the 'prepare for shipping to end user' command to trigger the user and password setup on next boot (so I don't have to set and write a password on a postit note on the laptop, and hope it doesn't get lost).
[0] https://www.ebay.com/str/evolutionecycling
[1] https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/lates...
> bummed to see firefox at version 128
I believe that is because Debian ships Firefox "Extended Support Release" (ESR) as a security precaution, and the firefox-esr package[1] is quite out of date in absolute terms.
If you want the newest Firefox (not ESR), just add Mozilla's own repo instead: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/4-reasons-to-try-mozilla...
[1]: https://packages.debian.org/trixie/firefox-esr
It’s out of date, feature wise, but should have all the security updates, I believe.
Of course, and it was sloppy of me to call it "out of date", that goes for all serious Linux distributions with official life cycles, the "official" packages provided follow the life cycle of the distribution. This is a very common gripe with security scanners that flag "old" versions of Apache and the like within a supported OS release, they only look at the apparent version of Apache, not what security patches have actually been installed -- because it would, of course, be completely incorrect to increment the actual version of the software for backported fixes.
I tried debian several times over the years, but it was with bookworm (debian 12) that i decided to make the switch on all my PCs and laptops, macbook included.
(mainly, it was the fact that the installer finally included firmwares out of the box which made installing much, much easier on laptops)
Because i want updated packages, the first thing i do is enable backports (otherwise i think that trixie still comes with kicad 5? hugh!) and do a full upgrade.
as for firefox, debian's repositories use firefox esr, which is why you are still on 128. There are instructions on firefox's site on how to switch to the regular release channels, just do that. If you can't trust firefox's own sources i don't know how you can trust debian's.
Debian + KDE is my favourite combo. I don't do anything different for desktop. When there was the debian 13 freeze i simply waited a couple of days, edited the sources to point at trixie and did a full-upgrade and an autoremove to clean old stuff. That's it.
How do you find the hardware compatibility to be? I've been keen to switch away from Ubuntu for years now and Debian would be my first choice but I'm wary of having problems e.g. with Nvidia GPUs, random peripheral devices such as printers and scanners, all of which mostly "just work" with Ubuntu. For this reason I'm leaning more towards Linux Mint but I'd like to be persuaded on Debian.
I don't consider outdated packages to be a problem on any distro because I just use Nix (which doesn't interfere with other package managers) whenever I want a more recent package.
Debian user here: no nvidia here, but the printer (networked), wifi and scanner just work. As does my bluetooth mouse,
I know that's not your point and I'm not saying this to cherry-pick your argument but in case that's particularly relevant to you, Debian Trixie ships with Kicad 9 : https://packages.debian.org/trixie/kicad. If you're stuck with an earlier version, maybe you have a dependency blocking your updates.
I’m a big fan of the Debian+Flatpak combo. Super stable base system, plus bleeding edge, usually dev maintained, GUI apps.
Kicad is easy to compile manually. The build process is surprisingly smooth for something so complex.
I've been happy with Fedora for my personal systems, and it's the only blessed distro at work for those who don't want Windows or Mac.
Heck, I use Fedora Server as my homelab OS to run Incus. Works For Me.
Nothing against Fedora and the rpm-based platforms but I prefer the debian-derived distros. My preference is due to Debian feeling like a community project rather than being driven by corporate interests. Ubuntu was doing for a while but that started changing a few years ago.
> Heck, I use Fedora Server as my homelab OS to run Incus. Works For Me.
In your case I guess it makes sense since you have to run Fedora at work, but I was under the impression that the support for Incus (i.e. official packaging etc) was better on Debian.
It might be better on Debian, but it's absolutely fine on Fedora too - in that I've hit zero snags. Maybe there are problems somewhere, but I've not encountered them yet (with a mix of all three supported ways to run things).
You can always work with backports! It's the way Debian has to bring more recent packages to older stable versions.
https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
If I'm not mistaken, repo is already included by default, so you just need:
''' # apt install -t trixie-backports <package> '''
This will install backported package _and_ dependencies, so you will be good to go :)
Same here. Only stick up is that for those with NVidia GPU's (yes...) for some reason the kernel headers don't install when you install the driver, plus the secure boot signing simply does not work (Ubuntu, Fedora, they all manage OOTB). I see it is generating MOK stuff, but it does not work. Because of that, it's pretty hard to troubleshoot. Plus, Debian-provided drivers do not work/enable at all on Optimus machines, and not a single option (I tried them all, except those no longer available) on the Debian wiki. (Let's hope the Arch colab works out.)
I solved all of the above by switching to the NVidia Cuda repo (well, I did not reenable Secure Boot, so not sure if that would work now).
if you want a newer firefox use flatpak, don't pollute your system with unofficial debs or source installs
These kinds of statements suit servers with high availability requirements but really shouldn’t be made without context. Adding the Mozilla Debian Firefox repos probably won’t break anything catastrophic, and the time cost / risk of containers is non zero too.
I’ve had more trouble and time wasted with snap Firefox than I’ve had with official Mozilla repos under both Debian and Ubuntu.
flatpak is not snap
The point still stands.
it doesn't because flatpak has basically zero of the problems that snap has (slow app start, forced updates ...). It just works and keeps your system clean.
Firefox is the one app that I want in my base system. Maybe it’s better now, but I always seem to run into some issue with the Flatpak. Usually because some other Flatpak app wants to log in and something goes wrong between all the redirects between the apps that that entails.
The Mozilla Firefox-Repo is really a bad example for convincing people to go away using Debian package repos: You can even install Firefox-ESR and Firefox Stable and Firefox Beta (and maybe Firefox Nightly, haven't tested it) from the Debian- and Mozilla- Repos in parallel.
I prefer to install Firefox directly from the Mozilla. I’ve had too many issues with the Debian ESR version being too far behind the mainline in features.
Back when I wanted new packages, I ran Debian unstable.
Occasionally I'd find myself having to manually fix dependencies, but for the most part it worked great for me. I don't bother now, since it's rare that I want something newer than what backports can give me and I'm not adverse to compiling my own stuff if I need to.
I've been on Debian 11 for a few years and I'm installing 13 on another disk (dual booting until it's ready for my job.)
I did not use the Firefox coming with 11 and I won't use the ESR version in 13. I downloaded the deb from Mozilla's site once and it autoupdated itself up to the current version. No problem at all. I'll do the same on 13.
Mozilla have an apt source you can add. No manual dpkg required.
Doesn’t that give Mozilla the ability to replace any package on one’s computer?
I trust Debian, and I trust the Debian Firefox team to secure Firefox, but I do not trust Mozilla.
That's what apt pinning is for: https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration
You can tell apt to prefer a given source list only for a few packages.
FYI to the parent poster, if you don’t trust Mozilla installing from a deb vs apt won’t make a huge difference. Firefox automatically updates and could decide arbitrarily to reconfigure your apt repos for you, or pull down and install additional debs.
It’s a fair move to minimise the risk, so I’ll be pinning on my system if it’s not already, but it won’t make a whole world of difference if the remote actor starts misbehaving. The other alternative is to disable automatic updates entirely and hope the version you’re pinned to is okay, but vulnerabilities in browsers are common, that’s basically what LTS is for anyway.
I see testing as a better fit for general-purpose desktop setups, stable is a bit too conservative in that regard.
That is true, at least for laptops that came to market after the respective Debian release.
You can however get all stability of a released version with newer packages if you use stable+backports. This would give you a stable system, and allow you to upgrade selected packages to newer versions. This can be tedious, so running testing is also possible.
And well, overall, you can also install other distributions that are bleeding-edge (Arch based?). That's why I like about the distro ecosystem :)
If you want Arch that's easy to setup, and manage, try EndeavourOS. Its the first time I've tried Arch and stuck with it. I tried Manjaro but it was a nightmare for me, I had just installed it and ran an update command, and it broke everything. I think it was my lack of understanding Pacman. I have to wonder if people just break Arch mostly because of Pacman nuances.
Protip: don't use Pacman directly, just use 'yay' which comes with EndeavourOS. Yay is an interface to Pacman, now while it may sound silly, its totally worth its salt. I'm probably still on Endeavour because of yay.
In order to update your system just type 'yay' into a terminal and it does the work prompting you for confirmation.
If you want to install anything its as simple as 'yay packagename' and then it gives you options, including from the User repos (AUR) which are like Ubuntu's PPAs.
I spent probably 15 years on Debian / Ubuntu (though it mostly became Ubuntu even for servers, I got too used to Ubuntu over the years). I installed Arch this past year because I wanted more up to date packages, I didnt want bleeding edge, but it hasn't been so much bleeding so I'm okay with it. I update every few days, or when Discord decides to tell me to download the DEB package or it wont open.
>This is on a desktop system so somewhat recent versions of software is desirable.
This is why I stopped using Debian on the desktop. Now I use Fedora KDE (Kinoite, to be specific) and get updates very quickly. Highly recommended!
You can manually install Mozilla's Linux binary and it will update itself as on other platforms. I've been doing this since the Iceweasel days and it's always been solid.
Firefox 140 ESR was released this month. I expect Debian will publish an update to it soon.