My last EV used 22 MWh over 6.5 years. That works out to 390W.
My solar array is located at high latitudes (northern Minnesota), the mounting angle isn't great, it's occasionally covered in snow, etc. In these conditions, I need 6.3 solar panels to produce 22 MWh over 6.5 years.
The area used by 6.3 solar panels -- enough PV to cover _all_ my EV's energy needs -- works out to be a parking spot large enough to fit the vehicle but not large enough to fully open any of the doors.
Only thing holding off my EV purchase is that I want proper V2G support. If I'm paying for 100kWh of lithium battery capacity I damn well want to use it as a backup for my house.
My understanding is that V2G (vehicle to grid) requires transfer switches etc to be installed to your home electrical setup so you don't accidentally backfeed electricity into the grid. So it's never going to be a simply a matter of getting a better EV.
Why exactly do you want a backup? If you're looking to maintain a few key appliances or internet during a grid outage a vehicle with V2L like an MG4 or BYD might be sufficient.
You probably already know this, but for the sake of providing context to other readers: V2G - vehicle to grid, providing power to the grid from your car battery like is common for home solar batteries; V2L - vehicle to load, a power outlet using energy from your car battery.
Transfer switches are trivial to have installed. I already have a manual, interlocked one for a portable generator.
I have a 13kW array on the roof and live in a place where ice storms make power outages a thing most years. My solar inverter is grid following. Even if I can't get grid forming from a car I'd only have to pay for a small battery and grid forming inverter to cold start the whole operation rather than $10K of extra batteries for them to do the grid forming. Then I can let the solar and vehicle do their thing and follow the islanded grid during the outage.
My understanding is that the only vehicle for which both the vehicle and the necessary house-side equipment are _currently_ available on the market is the Ford Lightning. Several other manufacturers have promised that their vehicles will support it, but there isn't yet any available source of the house side yet.
I assume this means that no one is using open standards or else you could conceivably just use the Ford Lightning equipment with any other vehicle.
The Quasar 2 bi-directional charger has been on the verge of coming out for years now but still isn't ready to just go out and buy it.
I agree with you though. I work from home and so my EV sits in front of my house for the vast majority of the time, and the battery is more than 2x my total usage during high cost hours. I don't have solar, but I do have time of use rating, so if I could use the giant battery to demand shift, that would save me a ton of money every year.
I suspect the main issue is the north american 2 split phases+neutral design.
Specifically, without the neutral, the car can already generate that with the onboard charger. A bidirectional charger costs no more than a unidirectional one if you are designing it.
But generating that neutral is expensive. You either need a hundred lbs of transformer, or some expensive power electronics.
> Only thing holding off my EV purchase is that I want proper V2G support.
I always find this argument strange and it just feels like an excuse people use to sound informed while also dumping on EVs.
Do you have frequent enough power outages that you need a backup power solution? Why don't you have that solution already? Did the lack of ability to use an ICE vehicle as a generator for your home stop you from purchasing ICE vehicles? What's your definition of "proper V2G support" and why don't current EVs with V2G suffice?
V2G has a number of downsides. The most glaring is that you're stranded at home during a power outage or your house is without power while you go out. It requires to your EV to be plugged in, and won't automatically kick in when the power fails.
The power needs of a home are minimal compared to an EV, if having power during power outages is important then you're far better off investing in a whole home battery backup system. They're significantly cheaper than an EV because they aren't optimized for density and portability.
Honestly we should consider giving generous tax benefits so that every open air parking lot in any city in America that has more than 50,000 residents would be stupid to not have solar installed that covers the front of the cars in the parking lot and the walkways between the lot and the stores.
That's so much real estate available that would lower electricity costs, decrease the amount of AC used to cool cars down, and make going to malls and similar places a little nicer for everyone.
Yes! Exactly this.
My last EV used 22 MWh over 6.5 years. That works out to 390W.
My solar array is located at high latitudes (northern Minnesota), the mounting angle isn't great, it's occasionally covered in snow, etc. In these conditions, I need 6.3 solar panels to produce 22 MWh over 6.5 years.
The area used by 6.3 solar panels -- enough PV to cover _all_ my EV's energy needs -- works out to be a parking spot large enough to fit the vehicle but not large enough to fully open any of the doors.
Exactly.
Only thing holding off my EV purchase is that I want proper V2G support. If I'm paying for 100kWh of lithium battery capacity I damn well want to use it as a backup for my house.
My understanding is that V2G (vehicle to grid) requires transfer switches etc to be installed to your home electrical setup so you don't accidentally backfeed electricity into the grid. So it's never going to be a simply a matter of getting a better EV.
Why exactly do you want a backup? If you're looking to maintain a few key appliances or internet during a grid outage a vehicle with V2L like an MG4 or BYD might be sufficient.
You probably already know this, but for the sake of providing context to other readers: V2G - vehicle to grid, providing power to the grid from your car battery like is common for home solar batteries; V2L - vehicle to load, a power outlet using energy from your car battery.
Transfer switches are trivial to have installed. I already have a manual, interlocked one for a portable generator.
I have a 13kW array on the roof and live in a place where ice storms make power outages a thing most years. My solar inverter is grid following. Even if I can't get grid forming from a car I'd only have to pay for a small battery and grid forming inverter to cold start the whole operation rather than $10K of extra batteries for them to do the grid forming. Then I can let the solar and vehicle do their thing and follow the islanded grid during the outage.
My understanding is that the only vehicle for which both the vehicle and the necessary house-side equipment are _currently_ available on the market is the Ford Lightning. Several other manufacturers have promised that their vehicles will support it, but there isn't yet any available source of the house side yet.
I assume this means that no one is using open standards or else you could conceivably just use the Ford Lightning equipment with any other vehicle.
The Quasar 2 bi-directional charger has been on the verge of coming out for years now but still isn't ready to just go out and buy it.
I agree with you though. I work from home and so my EV sits in front of my house for the vast majority of the time, and the battery is more than 2x my total usage during high cost hours. I don't have solar, but I do have time of use rating, so if I could use the giant battery to demand shift, that would save me a ton of money every year.
I suspect the main issue is the north american 2 split phases+neutral design.
Specifically, without the neutral, the car can already generate that with the onboard charger. A bidirectional charger costs no more than a unidirectional one if you are designing it.
But generating that neutral is expensive. You either need a hundred lbs of transformer, or some expensive power electronics.
> Only thing holding off my EV purchase is that I want proper V2G support.
I always find this argument strange and it just feels like an excuse people use to sound informed while also dumping on EVs.
Do you have frequent enough power outages that you need a backup power solution? Why don't you have that solution already? Did the lack of ability to use an ICE vehicle as a generator for your home stop you from purchasing ICE vehicles? What's your definition of "proper V2G support" and why don't current EVs with V2G suffice?
V2G has a number of downsides. The most glaring is that you're stranded at home during a power outage or your house is without power while you go out. It requires to your EV to be plugged in, and won't automatically kick in when the power fails.
The power needs of a home are minimal compared to an EV, if having power during power outages is important then you're far better off investing in a whole home battery backup system. They're significantly cheaper than an EV because they aren't optimized for density and portability.
That's actually mandatory in France for large parking lots
Honestly we should consider giving generous tax benefits so that every open air parking lot in any city in America that has more than 50,000 residents would be stupid to not have solar installed that covers the front of the cars in the parking lot and the walkways between the lot and the stores.
That's so much real estate available that would lower electricity costs, decrease the amount of AC used to cool cars down, and make going to malls and similar places a little nicer for everyone.
Sorry, that would actually be rational and we can't have that.