Some recent alternatives/successors/forks that are in the same vein as Pico
- Nimble: https://leftium.github.io/nimble.css/demo/pico.html
- Sumi.css: https://vladocar.github.io/Sumi.css/docs.html
- Blades: https://github.com/anyblades/blades
- Oat: https://oat.ink/
I was a big fan of pico! Such an inspiration. I created https://github.com/lekoala/actual-css as an attempt to get something modern yet as compatible as possible with older browsers (still ended up using popover because it's such a welcome addition to modern css). I'm still not sure modern css frameworks need to use layers (it breaks on older browsers) or anchor positioning (minimal js does the job, sometimes even better, and again: more compatible).
None of them work on older browser - https://ibb.co/album/3kJP50
Ios 13.6 in my case, which was released just 6 yrs ago, 2020. For some context, flexbox gap was added in ios14.1, released in 2021. So iOS 13.6 was still usable atleast couple of years beyond that. So such frameworks utterly failing on such browsers is hilarious, given that they market themselves as minimal.
People keep forgetting that css3 was announced in 1999. And adoption roughly started from 2010. The css3 of that time is not the same as css3 you get to see in latest browsers. These minimal css frameworks are really useless if you don’t know what css3 features you are writing and who you are targeting.
And, I Haven’t even tested those in less capable browsers like dillo or netsurf, but I doubt they will even work there.
If you start looking into browser market share, you will quickly realise that there are millions of worldwide users who can’t use the web normally.
> So such frameworks utterly failing on such browsers is hilarious, given that they market themselves as minimal.
Minimal is an entirely different property to backwards compatibility.
When you say something is minimal, you are implying that what little you provide will also work. Which in this case is clearly not.
motherfuckingwebsite.com is more minimal and usable than these frameworks.
As you're mainly complaining about CSS layout features being used here:
For a long time we were forced to use the ugliest hacks imaginable to get to the nice (responsive, design-minimalist(!)) layouts we wanted, because CSS layout tools were utter archaic bs, for years on end, because browsers iterated so slowly.
Then things started speeding up, and we're getting to make better websites (and apps!) that are way easier to design (with the correct design theory equivalents), implenent (with less code) and easier to maintain (i.e., understand). And you're not missing out if you just keep your browser up to date.
I know it sucks if you're on an unsupported device that doesn't get any updates, fair.
But let's face it: 99% of the population is better off security-wise when we're not enabling them to run unpatched devices forever.
Security updates have nothing to do with level of support for css3 modules.
Much of the issues of layout were already solved more than 12 yrs back, ie when css3 became mainstream.
The issue is devs are unaware about different levels of css3 or just plain ignorant about it.
Are you aware about the different levels of css3? Are you even aware there are levels to css3? Why are these frameworks not listing them and simply saying that they comply with web standards? Which specific web standards do they comply?
Any new css3 feature should have a fallback if they say they comply to web standards, which these frameworks don’t add.
Basically you want to adopt latest w3c guideline but completely ignore wcag guidelines on accessibility - https://www.thewcag.com/principles/robust
Why should some population forced to suffer because of your ignorance. I am sorry if I am blunt, but your comment about polarising users is rude.
Which comes back to my main point, Devs are simply not educating themselves about the fundamentals of web design.
I think its fine to target compatability with 99.9% on people with updated devices and not some random old 2020 safafi build
Even though I provided a direct link to wcag principles and guidelines, you still are too lazy to read.
> None of them work on older browser
There are older browsers which still get security patches?
They don’t unfortunately but it is a good reference for me to check how it looks on previous versions of browsers and less powerful devices. That way I know if the UI or UX needs improvement.
ios updates unfortunately ties everything to a single batch. Unlike android. I have an older blackberry, that still gets latest app updates.
What is even hilarious is ads render with pixel perfection on older devices. So for some reason, ad networks care about browser compatibility than devs putting the same ads on their incompatible website.
All of them failed my ten second evaluation. It's amazing how many mediocre CSS frameworks that are out there.
Despite its idiotic naming, I still use PureCSS[0]. Not sure why they keep maintaining it. I don't mind, nothing ever seems to change anyway.
How's your ten second evaluation of it?
[0]: https://pure-css.github.io/
I'm using it but it's such a pain in the arse to find anything else online about it.
It's one of the reasons I'm planning on moving stuff over to Pico.
Or now, I guess, just writing some CSS from scratch, which I hate.
What do you think of https://starter.bryanhogan.com/ then?
Useless - https://ibb.co/h1sRtYKF
What the hell browser is that?
Whats the first thing in a CSS framework that you notice and makes you say "nah"?
What's your ten second evaluation?
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