I learned in school (English is my 2nd language) that you can never use "their" or "they" about something inanimate like a corporation (or a chair, for example). You would use "its" or have to rephrase your sentence; "the developers at Google shipped their feature."
The suggestions are valid and correct, we (generic "we") are just used to not following proper grammar. This is how languages evolve but it is also what puts these assistance tools in a peculiar spot, because they help with accuracy, not everyday expressions.
When one interprets grammar rules as prescriptive rather than descriptive, it is easy to fall into the trap of believing in "correct" and "incorrect", when expressing intent is the single most important thing. Expressing intent is not a thing AI can do, thus far, as they don't want anything...there is no intention.
I'm certain there are folks out there who have a hard time with written English that could benefit from an AI editor, but I would almost always rather read casual English written by a human, even if idiosyncratic and "incorrect" sometimes.
And, to be clear: Hard to read English can never be correct, no matter how carefully it follows grammatical rules, and AI often writes hard to read English.
I think that is an interesting observation. You're comparing the "why" we have a language vs. the "how" the language is structured, and for sure the former is more important than the latter.
A side effect of studying programming languages in my youth was that I began understanding grammar better. Suddenly words belonged to "classes" and when thinking about "object references" in sentences, and the rules that followed, it helped me read and write more clearly.
I think I might be slightly opposite of you, but not very far opposite. I prefer reading a precise and accurate sentence that - when understood - clearly describes the intent without a shred of doubt much more than an easy to understand sentence that I find ambiguous because, to understand it, it requires context and a social agreement that nobody is trying to trick people.
I had a friend once that kept using open-ended phrasings and ambiguous descriptions because (I think) he enjoyed the feeling of power or control that the confusion and miscommunication introduced. Like if he were to "run to the stores" you could ask what he was buying and he'd follow up with a "oh, I didn't say I was buying anything, I'm just going for a run". If I have to guess which of the variations of meanings is the intended one, then the communication has failed in my book, regardless of how easy it was to understand the sentence.
"I had a friend once that kept using open-ended phrasings and ambiguous descriptions"
A failure to express intent, not a failure of grammar. Perfect grammar can mislead just as easily.
In British English it’s entirely standard (and common) for grammatically singular collective nouns to take a plural verb and be referred to with a plural pronoun:
"The ManU have won three out of their last four matches."
"The Parliament have had heated debates over the NIH budget."
"Tesla introduced their newest EV model last week."
Any competent English teacher should know this.
Also, there’s no "correct" language outside of how it’s actually used. Linguists are the first to explain that their job is to describe, not to prescribe.
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I’ve no idea what you refer to with "laziness". The "rule" that you claim you were taught simply does not always apply.
A smart writing assistant will give advice that’s appropriate to the context, register, the recipient’s culture, communication style and tastes, and the author’s relationship with the recipient. Sometimes writing very normatively and by the book is part of the message. Sometimes the exact opposite is true. If the assistant is unaware of all the context relevant to the communication, it’s likely to be a bad assistant.
Dropping articles is wrong because English as natively spoken doesn’t work like that. Except when it does, like news headlines, condensed "telegram" or SMS style, and so on.
Not according to my references:
"When to use a singular verb
- When all the members of a collective noun are performing an action as a unit (and that’s usually the case), use a singular verb.
- The chamber orchestra often plays at the Art Centre.
When to use a plural verb
When the members of a collective noun are performing an action as individuals, use a plural verb. In this case, all or some members of the group are doing something independently of the other members; the group is not acting together as a unit.
- The orchestra are tuning their instruments.
- The cast have been practising their lines."
https://our-languages.canada.ca/en/writing-tips-plus/verb-ag...
That applies to NA English. And even there, as the reference says, notional agreement (verb/pronouns in plural) can be used when it’s more about the individual members of the collective doing something. So GP’s rule that only grammatical agreement (verb/pronouns in singular) is ever correct is wrong even in NA. But in BrE notional agreement is the most idiomatic choice while grammatical agreement is certainly also fine, just not standard style.
"The army are advancing", if I wrote that as a kid, I would get an F and if a British wrote it, they would get an A.. For me "the army is advancing". Anyways I learned a new thing today.
Well, I think you've more or less explained my point exactly! The purpose of language is to convey meaning, and my using "their" for Google is precisely and intentionally in defiance of the idea that a corporation is inanimate. If you change that part of my writing, you actually change the entire voice and personality behind the writing!
And that's why it's so difficult to read the things that LLMs write. Because they follow the rules of language without embracing the chaotic nature of the fact that it's meant to convey information rather than to "be correct".
Another way to view this is as metonymy. "Google" is a metonym for "Google Staff", so using "their" to refer to the humans-making-up-the-corporation (as referenced by the metonym) is appropriate.
I agree it's correct English to say "Google have launched their new product".
This is prescriptive vs descriptive grammar, where descriptive grammar describes how people actually use language. Using "they" in that context is only wrong because someone or group decided that must be the rule.
In Swedish -
> Vi går till mitt hus
"Let's go to my house" - this is correct but not really said
> Vi går hem till mig
"Let's go to my place" - incorrect but the actual way to say it
> I learned in school (English is my 2nd language) that you can never use "their" or "they" about something inanimate like a corporation (or a chair, for example).
Definitely not a chair, but a corporation is also "just" a group of people. "Their" makes perfect sense for a corp, even if it isn't perfectly accurate
So, again, are we aiming for high correctness or high comprehension? "Company" makes sense because you can have a "company of five participants" and they can do something, e.g., select a wine pairing menu at a restaurant, but a corporation is typically "a thing".
Everyone who understands English at a professional level (and probably even lower levels, too - or perhaps especially those) will understand what you mean if you say "the corporation announced their financial report last weekend", but it won't be the correct use of "their", as far as I'm aware.
Similarly you can't, as far as I understand, append an "s" to describe a relationship of an inanimate thing, e.g., this would be incorrect: "the corporations employees went to the summer party" again because "corporation" is a thing. But on the flipside phrases like "the employees of the corporation went to..." sound a bit too - what's the word - posh?
> a corporation is typically "a thing".
What is "a thing", exactly ? Corporations are certainly ambiguous in that regard: they have legal personhood[1] and even free speech[2] in US, apparently.
In the other hand, no corporation ever really "announce its financial report". Someone does it on behalf of the corporation, technically.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
I would argue that stuff like this reveals that "proper English" is in fact incorrect. :)
> but it won't be the correct use of "their", as far as I'm aware.
Yes, yes it will be.
See collective nouns, and "Metonymic merging of grammatical number" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun
> this would be incorrect: "the corporations employees went to the summer party" again because "corporation" is a thing
You can easily say "the corporation's financial report for Q4 was worse than predicted".
I think you're focusing too much on specific and hyper-specific rigid rules in a single textbook. As others said, prescriptivism vs. descriptivism. Descriptivism is always better, as it describes how language works and may evolve. Prescriptivism assumes languages are rigid unchanging things that can be precisely described.
The full rules for a working language take people years to learn at universities, and they are never as simple as "an inanimate object can't have a possessive form with 's".
Prescriptivism also works in schools/learning as it helps people not to drift too much from the norm. But too many take it to heart.