Subverting the secure boot/upgrade chain would require a SecureROM exploit and presumably a compromise of the Secure Enclave, so the answer is almost certainly "no" (even prior major exploits from recent memory like usbliter8 are tethered and don't exploit the enclave; the last true untethered Jailbreak was iOS 9 or something.) An upgrade would fix it. The internet reporting claims this break they are showing in this video is untethered though, which is extremely rare on its own.
I know a bunch of people that would use iPhones if iPhones had first class private backup options (the de-iclouding, like the de-googling of androids). Having root on the device would make this an option.
I run vibed apps on my iphone just fine - you have to register for a developer account and pay the annual fee, but I have an agent app running that can improve itself and push new versions over wifi just fine.
I even have realtime watch complications which no shipping app can have because of apple restrictions - developer mode lets you push complication updates realtime if you want.
I'll probably consider something more open next time I buy but just pointing out that right now with a developer account you're not actually _that_ restricted on iOS, the experience is better than you might think if you're making an app you never intend to ship.
I already have an account so I use that regardless, but AFAICT you can in fact build for your own device without paying at all. I haven't tested this though.
I am not arguing Apple's restrictions are a good thing, if I were in charge I would in fact make allowing installing your own software on your own device a legal requirement of selling hardware, yet here we are.
The videos sort of imply that these are userland rather than bootrom, whatever payload they have running is getting hit before first unlock, which isn't a lot of surface. They specifically say to not update which pretty much confirms where the attack surface is. Somewhere after the kernel starts but before the main user space is unlocked with the passcode.
I want the freedom to install the OS I want on my phone. Now if I install a proprietary OS, I get what the developers of that proprietary OS choose to do. And if that proprietary OS does not give me root access, well, that's life.
“I want root access to my phone” is a nonsensical statement on some level. It’s a device. The fact you have mistaken it for a Unix machine is your own delusion.
Did people used to get like this about pocket calculators or digital watches? “Why am I forced to be limited to only the manufacturer’s firmware?”
I once again am pointing to the sign that states this was never a l33t-hax0r board like you all think; it's always been an arm of one of the leading VC incubators.
I don’t think that hackers would agree to be locked out of a system, or do you mean they want to be locked out as a challenge? In any case you don’t get to choose which OS gets installed, so the parent’s opinion is hypothetical.
> In any case you don’t get to choose which OS gets installed
Of course you do. You can run GrapheneOS, or LineageOS, postmarketOS, or mobian, or many others. All of those are open source, you can modify them as you want before you flash them.
Subverting the secure boot/upgrade chain would require a SecureROM exploit and presumably a compromise of the Secure Enclave, so the answer is almost certainly "no" (even prior major exploits from recent memory like usbliter8 are tethered and don't exploit the enclave; the last true untethered Jailbreak was iOS 9 or something.) An upgrade would fix it. The internet reporting claims this break they are showing in this video is untethered though, which is extremely rare on its own.
Genuinely, why have an iPhone in the first place if you want this?
The magnificent hardware. That's why I bought a macbook and that's why I'm planning to switch to an iPhone.
There is a lot of great hardware out there that is not made by apple.
Yes, but many, including me, find apple hardware better with great support, battery life, long life, etc.
I still have my linux desktop when I want to tinker.
It's good to have that option for every phone out there.
I know a bunch of people that would use iPhones if iPhones had first class private backup options (the de-iclouding, like the de-googling of androids). Having root on the device would make this an option.
What are alternatives? I keep thinking I want something I can run vibed apps on, especially something grok bot right on device.
I run vibed apps on my iphone just fine - you have to register for a developer account and pay the annual fee, but I have an agent app running that can improve itself and push new versions over wifi just fine.
I even have realtime watch complications which no shipping app can have because of apple restrictions - developer mode lets you push complication updates realtime if you want.
I'll probably consider something more open next time I buy but just pointing out that right now with a developer account you're not actually _that_ restricted on iOS, the experience is better than you might think if you're making an app you never intend to ship.
So whats the going rate nowadays for running your own apps in your own device? 100$ a year?
I already have an account so I use that regardless, but AFAICT you can in fact build for your own device without paying at all. I haven't tested this though.
I am not arguing Apple's restrictions are a good thing, if I were in charge I would in fact make allowing installing your own software on your own device a legal requirement of selling hardware, yet here we are.
Yes, I believe this works but for a limited time, you’d have to re-upload every week or so.
you can load your custom apps by usb onto any android phone.
usb not required android adb works wirelessly
The videos sort of imply that these are userland rather than bootrom, whatever payload they have running is getting hit before first unlock, which isn't a lot of surface. They specifically say to not update which pretty much confirms where the attack surface is. Somewhere after the kernel starts but before the main user space is unlocked with the passcode.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I disagree.
I want the freedom to install the OS I want on my phone. Now if I install a proprietary OS, I get what the developers of that proprietary OS choose to do. And if that proprietary OS does not give me root access, well, that's life.
“I want root access to my phone” is a nonsensical statement on some level. It’s a device. The fact you have mistaken it for a Unix machine is your own delusion.
Did people used to get like this about pocket calculators or digital watches? “Why am I forced to be limited to only the manufacturer’s firmware?”
Dunno about you but I had to jailbreak my TI84 to run what I wanted to on it
the fact this opinion is voted down, is clear proof HN is late to be renamed something else, because hacker it isn't
I once again am pointing to the sign that states this was never a l33t-hax0r board like you all think; it's always been an arm of one of the leading VC incubators.
Stop expecting differently.
Curious now: why did they call it "hackernews"? I came for the name, definitely not for the VCs. The one thing I dislike more than BigTech is VCs.
You answered your own question :)
Haha yeah, well played :-)
HN for HackerNots.
I don’t think that hackers would agree to be locked out of a system, or do you mean they want to be locked out as a challenge? In any case you don’t get to choose which OS gets installed, so the parent’s opinion is hypothetical.
> In any case you don’t get to choose which OS gets installed
Of course you do. You can run GrapheneOS, or LineageOS, postmarketOS, or mobian, or many others. All of those are open source, you can modify them as you want before you flash them.
All the same OS in a different shirt
HN has and always will be majority lil VC money funded tech bros who know nothing about actual hacking
Well the governments and supranational bodies who want to read your messages would be aghast at you having root on your phone.
Like we did on HTC G1s in 2008