I like the wallet example. Back in 2005, I found a wallet on the street with $3000 inside, and spent the rest of the day tracking down the owner. (Turned out it was a student's rent for her summer internship). Then maybe 2 months later I lost my wallet and a week later it showed up in my mailbox, cash and all -- someone took the time and their own money (as far as I could tell) to send it back to me.
And just to prove that I'm an irrational human, for the last 21 years every time I pass the spot where I found the wallet I can't help but look around for a lost wallet, as if it's some magical spot where the universe deposits lost wallets.
> “Humans are far more decent than they believe they are, ..."
I did a 3-month walking pilgrimage in Belgium & France this summer. I had very little money and a tent and walked along quiet roads. Several people offered me a room for the night. (I was surprised, I don't know if I'd offer a stranger that) Many came out with food, snacks, fruit when they saw me resting near a church etc.
I used an app as well that allows camping in someone's garden ("Welcome to my Garden"). A few times I arrived to setup my tent and the owner had to leave for an appointment/event. They left me the keys to their house and told me to make myself at home until they returned(!)
Where my parents live they leave the door unlocked, easily invite people in and there is strong social cohesion. Where I live that's invalidating your home insurance since it's "asking to be robbed" and people don't talk to each other or report crimes.
Difference between the countryside and the city I guess.
> And just to prove that I'm an irrational human, for the last 21 years every time I pass the spot where I found the wallet I can't help but look around for a lost wallet, as if it's some magical spot where the universe deposits lost wallets.
My dog does the same thing. One day years ago he caught a rat, and that's the first place he darts to every time he goes outside. He thinks its the magic rat spot.
My beagle does this with every sidewalk spot where he’s ever found a half-eaten chicken wing in his life - just in case.
I've often joked that we humans are very much like dogs.
But for some reason it's never taken well when you tell a new parent that raising their baby is going to be a lot like raising a puppy.
Smart dog!
Dumb rat.
You did not experience a trait of humans generally, but a trait of the specific, historically rare instance of high-trust society that had been consciously invented, built and protected, and that you were very lucky to be born into or live in.
"historically rare high-trust"? You are wrong.
Most self-forming human societies are high-trust and more loyal to each other than to truth (as the models have so eloquently regurgitated). Look anywhere from the hunter-gatherer tribes to villages to small towns. I have traveled my small, poor country extensively and the only place the fundamental idea of altruism had to be "consciously invented, built and protected" was in the big cities. In the rest of the places, it came to them as naturally as hunger. We've found skeletons from thousands of years ago that indicate that the whole society came together to care for the disabled individual for nothing in return, leading them to live as long as a modern disabled person with healthcare might.
Societies become low trust driven by specific factors: resource scarcity, something forcing a lot of different groups of people into the same area without integration. This is not a defense of humanity. I'd say the case of the returned wallet is more an example of class-loyalty than general human altruism. Humans have an instinct for exclusion of the non-conforming.
But the idea that civilization has to be invented and maintained is a debunked, regressive, even dangerous idea in that this line of thinking was used to justify a lot of atrocities historically.
The argument that we are historically high trust in small tribes, is not a denouncement of the position that we are in a unique moment in history.
Altruism, as you pointed out, is conditional. If population grows, the new constraints change the conditions that determine societal behaviors.
We need to develop tools to maintain a social contract once we grow past a degree of complexity.
We may be recreating the things we value from the small group stage, however our ability to achieve that in the recent past was an achievement.
It took a lot to get there, and tons of ideas and counter arguments were attempted and their failures learnt from.
Even the past moment had huge flaws.
Is it fair to say it’s a general human trait to iteratively, over many generations, step towards that society?
One might almost say evolutionary. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31163155/ , for example
It’s difficult to say, because there are plenty of fairly horrible examples where an entire nation gets trapped in a culture that actively masters over generations how to punish honesty and reward corruption. Russia being an example.
I doubt very much you have any backing for this statement...
In the micro level, Russians look to be lovely trusting people to each other. My source is an Instagram story of a guy pretending not to speak Russian, talking to drunk Russians on the street in English, and they're not agressive but they try to solve his problem. Yeah, great source, but I doubt it's much worse than yours.
misanthropic programmers say no
Cooperation wins in the end, so I'd guess as much
Nope
"Hail capitalism because we're only civilized under the influence of game theory!"
I think we're living in a highly individualistic society and what little high trust remains is outside of the logic of markets.
You should have seen the dark age... if everyone fended for themselves there we wouldn't be here now. You know how much you depend on your peers without any of the affordabilities of today's age?!
References or you are making shit up
Time to start leaving wallets there !
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I love western civilization
In Asia it’s very much the same
I'd say this is even more an Asian thing? Or maybe I'm just extrapolating from my visits in Japan and Malaysia.
I love true scotsmen