First Amendment, anyone? The right to protest and have a free press?
I guess we're raiding the homes of Congress members we simply disagree with, so Constitutional rights don't carry as much weight anymore.
First Amendment, anyone? The right to protest and have a free press?
I guess we're raiding the homes of Congress members we simply disagree with, so Constitutional rights don't carry as much weight anymore.
The right to protest and peacefully assemble doesnt give you the right to do it in private property. The church is church property its open to its members and generally the public but that doesnt make it a public place or public property. If you want to protest a store, you are free to do so on public property outside the store. You are not free to do so inside the store disrupting the purpose of the establishment. The store is private property they are within their rights to refuse your business as long as it isnt based on a protected class.
A church really isnt any different, their business is worship and offering a peaceful place for contemplation, reflaction and prayer. If you disrupt that they can and should ask you to leave and should you refuse that becomes the crime of tresspass.
If you want to be empowered by your rights then you should first take the necessary time to understand them.
Exceptional irony in that somewhere within that church might be printed the line "and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us". Probably within some book that isn't very important.
What is the appropriate punishment for "tresspass?" How does it involve a federal law enforcement agency, and not local law enforcement instead?
> If you want to be empowered by your rights then you should first take the necessary time to understand them.
I’m asking questions to better understand.
Disrupting someone's federally protected right to assemble and worship is a civil rights issue, just like forcing people to do that would be. If you stop and think about this a bit it's really obvious how "disrupt what's happening in a house of worship I don't like" would play out if it was allowed.
In fact there's history of black churches, synagogues, mosques and Sikh temples have been attacked, bombed, disrupted, and otherwise interfered with. You don't have the right to disrupt a girl's baseball team practice on a campus either. The Klan can't march through your living room.
This isn't hard to understand.
Would Jesus have pressed charges for their trespass? Nobody got hurt or lynched. Looking for an actual Christian to chime in here.
I’m not a Christian, but even I know that there’s more to Christianity than some parables. Even then if you want to get down to it Jesus is the same guy who cleared a temple by force.
So you know, cherrypick these things at your peril.
Thank you for your take, and I am aware of the reasoning the Bible states behind clearing the temple.
Congress members are not above the law, if they commit fraud then they should be investigated and prosecuted.
The right to protest doesn’t give you or anyone the right to do so on private property and to also interrupt with religious practices.
Documenting yourself doing the above doesn’t allow you to get away with it.
What if they haven’t committed fraud? Do you believe the federal government should be allowed to harass elected officials for their speech?
In the trespass charges, local government could have handled it without costing you as much. It’s a waste of taxpayer dollars using dragnet surveillance, violating the rights of others caught in their net. I believe the Feds are only wasting money on this because of who was involved, not the crime at hand.
“Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
I can’t reply to your other comment so commenting here.
Thank you for being so civil, these discussions tend to get very heated very quickly.
You are right that it is a misdemeanor unless there was an aggravating factor but I don’t think that has been alleged. But it does seem to be a federal offense nonetheless if someone does violate the code below.
18 U.S.C. § 247
>intentionally obstructs, by force or threat of force, including by threat of force against religious real property, any person in the enjoyment of that person’s free exercise of religious beliefs, or attempts to do so
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/247
Don Lemon does seem to be charged with Conspiracy Against Rights (18 U.S.C. § 241) and FACE Act Violation (18 U.S.C. § 248). Given that 247 deals with interstate commerce which wouldn’t make sense like you said.
Which congress person are you referring to? I would agree that there would need to be probable cause.
Interfering with religious worship is a federal offense, so I don’t think it could just be handled by the local government.
I'm just speaking hypothetically, of course. Otherwise the federal government ran by either party could just declare "fraud" or "show me your birth certificate" for 10 years without probable cause and keep repeatedly harassing the elected officials they disagree with.
> Interfering with religious worship is a federal offense
Pretty sure it's a misdemeanor offense in some states, but is not a federal offense. Open to reading the federal statute if you can cite one.
You have rights to assemble and protest, they have rights to assemble and worship. It’s all about trying to strike a reasonable balance between your competing rights.