Regardless if the market allows consumers access to negative solar prices or not, consumers can attach solar panels to their servers (independent of the grid), so the LLM is there when the sun is shining.
personally I think we should look at 12 km tall floating balloons piping a suitable vapor at ground temperature up, dumps the heat a bit above the tropopauze, condenses the vapor so it rains back down (perhaps in a loop, perhaps as a naive thermosiphon).
I believe we can generate baseload energy by cooling the planet... nearly everywhere, no fuels needed.
EU is big and prices vary. (Transfer capacity is limited)
Afaik electricity is around 7c/kWh in China. I got 8c/kWh 2y contract a couple weeks ago here in Finland. Though have to add 4c/kWh for transfer to that (no clue if the Chinese prices I could find include that). Commercial prices are less then that (no VAT and possibly lower power tax bracket. The 8c includes all taxes/fees)
That is expensive. If it makes you feel better, U.S. utilities' published kWh rates don't include a whole bunch of other things that make bills much higher than you'd imagine. For example, I used 280 kWh last month for my apartment, at a nominal rate of either 11 or 13 c/kWh (the rate changed from 13 to 11 partway through the month as it got cooler).
But after all the "sales true ups" and "affordability charges" and "resource adjustments" and "fuel cost charges" and "interim rate adjustments", not to mention the city fees and sales tax, the final bill divided by my usage gave me an effective rate of 23 c/kWh.
That sounds horrible, even in Europe deceptive and abusive tactics towards taking people's money are a constant hazard. I can't imagine trying to exist without even what little protection we have.
Utilities are actually highly regulated in the US. Those rates and fees are publicly available and explained when you get your service, for what it’s worth.
Utilities have to argue for rate increases and get them approved by regulators, so they’re not just dropping fees on top of everything as they please from month to month.
Really nobody should assume that their service is flat rate with a slope down to $0/month if you consume 0kWh. There are fixed and marginal costs in every service like this.
> Utilities have to argue for rate increases and get them approved by regulators, so they’re not just dropping fees on top of everything as they please from month to month.
Do regulators ever reject rate increases that the utilities ask for?
There is a state utility regulator that is supposed to ensure this stuff is fair, and it is disclosed ahead of time. Regardless, for small energy users like me, the fixed costs and extra fees are a huge percentage of the total. Thankfully the total electricity bill is not terribly consequential for my household budget.
Regardless if the market allows consumers access to negative solar prices or not, consumers can attach solar panels to their servers (independent of the grid), so the LLM is there when the sun is shining.
> when the sun is shining.
So no LLMs for 3-5 months a year in most of Europe?
personally I think we should look at 12 km tall floating balloons piping a suitable vapor at ground temperature up, dumps the heat a bit above the tropopauze, condenses the vapor so it rains back down (perhaps in a loop, perhaps as a naive thermosiphon).
I believe we can generate baseload energy by cooling the planet... nearly everywhere, no fuels needed.
Energy is a commodity so the price will be very similar for the same goods. What they tack on as taxes might be different.
Energy means electricity in this case, and the EU prices are about 2-3x those paid in China AFAIK, for both residential and commercial.
EU is big and prices vary. (Transfer capacity is limited)
Afaik electricity is around 7c/kWh in China. I got 8c/kWh 2y contract a couple weeks ago here in Finland. Though have to add 4c/kWh for transfer to that (no clue if the Chinese prices I could find include that). Commercial prices are less then that (no VAT and possibly lower power tax bracket. The 8c includes all taxes/fees)
The cheapest price in Europe at best equaling the average price in China sounds like it just proves my point?
No. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Electricity cannot be shipped from one place to another in bulk quantities.
And data can be.
Which is why I suspect most nominal "data centers" are fronts for crypto mining, an activity that seeks out the cheapest energy.
You're thinking the whole AI boom is just a front for crypto mining?
Me too.
EU average is just under 29c/kWh (non-contract price) [0]
In the UK I got 27.5c/kWh (+ 58c/day fixed charge) on an 18-month contract a month ago
[0] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
That is expensive. If it makes you feel better, U.S. utilities' published kWh rates don't include a whole bunch of other things that make bills much higher than you'd imagine. For example, I used 280 kWh last month for my apartment, at a nominal rate of either 11 or 13 c/kWh (the rate changed from 13 to 11 partway through the month as it got cooler).
But after all the "sales true ups" and "affordability charges" and "resource adjustments" and "fuel cost charges" and "interim rate adjustments", not to mention the city fees and sales tax, the final bill divided by my usage gave me an effective rate of 23 c/kWh.
That sounds horrible, even in Europe deceptive and abusive tactics towards taking people's money are a constant hazard. I can't imagine trying to exist without even what little protection we have.
Utilities are actually highly regulated in the US. Those rates and fees are publicly available and explained when you get your service, for what it’s worth.
Utilities have to argue for rate increases and get them approved by regulators, so they’re not just dropping fees on top of everything as they please from month to month.
Really nobody should assume that their service is flat rate with a slope down to $0/month if you consume 0kWh. There are fixed and marginal costs in every service like this.
> Utilities have to argue for rate increases and get them approved by regulators, so they’re not just dropping fees on top of everything as they please from month to month.
Do regulators ever reject rate increases that the utilities ask for?
There is a state utility regulator that is supposed to ensure this stuff is fair, and it is disclosed ahead of time. Regardless, for small energy users like me, the fixed costs and extra fees are a huge percentage of the total. Thankfully the total electricity bill is not terribly consequential for my household budget.
My thought was that the EU average can't be that high, but apparently Finland is just the outlier here.
I think in Quebec they've been paying me to use power.
Good for you