The funniest thing about internet land value tax discourse is all of the people who don’t realize that land is already taxed in cities like this.
As the other commenter discovered, the tax rate is very significant for this property.
But the core proposition doesn’t make sense, either. A land value tax wouldn’t force a property to be used for a less profitable use case. A LVT forces the property to be used for the most profitable use case because the tax would prevent people from using it for less profitable activities because that’s the only way to pay the high LVT.
Well the desirable property of a land value tax is that it is used entirely in lieu of the current “land plus improvements” tax.
Naturally people dislike this because using land for less than economically optimal uses is usually desired by the landowner and taxing improvements means that someone with a more economically optimal use makes them less of a competitor for the land than the present owner.
Most of the pro-LVT people I encounter have a belief that pure LVT will benefit them and harm corporations. The idea has become entangled in the pro-individual, anti-corporate mentality as a tool for us to wield against corporations. The most common LVT argument I hear is something about forcing developers to convert parking lots into housing units.
The example above shows that pure LVT would have the inverse effect: If the land becomes valuable for something other than housing, the taxes rise to the point that the only logical conclusion is to use it for commercial activities.
It’s at this point that the conversation turns to carving out land value tax exceptions for the 80 year old grandma in her forever home, which turns into more exceptions for normal homeowners, which slowly gets us closer and closer to our current system where we’re not ruthlessly taxing properties based on the value of the land alone.
I’m for LVT precisely for the express purpose of not carving out exceptions for any landowner. 80 year old ladies included.
Basically I see it as a way to get closer to the ideal of making land speculation no longer a thing. Regular homeowners included.
If you buy a home for $100k, in theory after you adjust for inflation it should sell for less due to depreciation of the structures on the property. The fact we assume a home is an investment is the root of the evil.
Of course this does not mean LVT is the only way to make this happen. It just seems the fairest to me. I still want people and corporations to be incentivized to develop and improve land - just not rewarded for sitting on it forever. The standard objection of 80 year olds in forever homes sitting on prime real estate better used for young professionals with families who still need to commute to work is exactly the sort of folks who should not be rewarded for such behavior.
How delightful! I had no idea other people had this view of LVT enthusiasts. I certainly think that if commercial uses outweigh housing they should take priority under these circumstances. There are externalities to be internalized but the general idea is that anyway.
Land value tax is an evil concept. Having to pay for land you already own is insane. Also, people already pay property tax, why should there be an additional tax.
A land value tax would be instead of a property tax. It encourages owners to either develop or sell to someone else willing to develop. Although in this case, I don't think it would actually encourage anything as it's clearly being used. The bottom of the building is being used as a store and the rest of the structure is holding up billboards. Most of the building itself is probably worth very little (it does look uninhabitable) so property taxes are lower than what they'd be if the plot was actually occupied with apartments or offices. The actual value comes from what's nearby which is the giant Macy's that wants a big billboard. Land value taxes are meant to prevent people from having relatively empty plots, like a big estate or a vacant plot, but there's already something here. Maybe it's not being used to its full potential but that would involve figuring out what it would take to actually develop and the future income against what the LVT would be. A dilapidated building serving as a billboard structure (plus the Sunglass Hut lease) is easy money, why upset that?
Yes, think about the less overhead from dealing with people and building issues. Take a look at the Times Square too.
Probably since you don't have to deal with tenant issues for one.
People underestimate the value of predictability.
Land value tax solves this
Not really. looks like they pay nearly $2mil a year every year right now already. You can look up Block 810 Lot 40 here: https://a836-pts-access.nyc.gov/care/search/commonsearch.asp...
The funniest thing about internet land value tax discourse is all of the people who don’t realize that land is already taxed in cities like this.
As the other commenter discovered, the tax rate is very significant for this property.
But the core proposition doesn’t make sense, either. A land value tax wouldn’t force a property to be used for a less profitable use case. A LVT forces the property to be used for the most profitable use case because the tax would prevent people from using it for less profitable activities because that’s the only way to pay the high LVT.
Well the desirable property of a land value tax is that it is used entirely in lieu of the current “land plus improvements” tax.
Naturally people dislike this because using land for less than economically optimal uses is usually desired by the landowner and taxing improvements means that someone with a more economically optimal use makes them less of a competitor for the land than the present owner.
Most of the pro-LVT people I encounter have a belief that pure LVT will benefit them and harm corporations. The idea has become entangled in the pro-individual, anti-corporate mentality as a tool for us to wield against corporations. The most common LVT argument I hear is something about forcing developers to convert parking lots into housing units.
The example above shows that pure LVT would have the inverse effect: If the land becomes valuable for something other than housing, the taxes rise to the point that the only logical conclusion is to use it for commercial activities.
It’s at this point that the conversation turns to carving out land value tax exceptions for the 80 year old grandma in her forever home, which turns into more exceptions for normal homeowners, which slowly gets us closer and closer to our current system where we’re not ruthlessly taxing properties based on the value of the land alone.
I’m for LVT precisely for the express purpose of not carving out exceptions for any landowner. 80 year old ladies included.
Basically I see it as a way to get closer to the ideal of making land speculation no longer a thing. Regular homeowners included.
If you buy a home for $100k, in theory after you adjust for inflation it should sell for less due to depreciation of the structures on the property. The fact we assume a home is an investment is the root of the evil.
Of course this does not mean LVT is the only way to make this happen. It just seems the fairest to me. I still want people and corporations to be incentivized to develop and improve land - just not rewarded for sitting on it forever. The standard objection of 80 year olds in forever homes sitting on prime real estate better used for young professionals with families who still need to commute to work is exactly the sort of folks who should not be rewarded for such behavior.
How delightful! I had no idea other people had this view of LVT enthusiasts. I certainly think that if commercial uses outweigh housing they should take priority under these circumstances. There are externalities to be internalized but the general idea is that anyway.
If at least 1% of people selling the property there don't cite land tax as the main reason for sale, then it's too low.
Land value tax is an evil concept. Having to pay for land you already own is insane. Also, people already pay property tax, why should there be an additional tax.
A land value tax would be instead of a property tax. It encourages owners to either develop or sell to someone else willing to develop. Although in this case, I don't think it would actually encourage anything as it's clearly being used. The bottom of the building is being used as a store and the rest of the structure is holding up billboards. Most of the building itself is probably worth very little (it does look uninhabitable) so property taxes are lower than what they'd be if the plot was actually occupied with apartments or offices. The actual value comes from what's nearby which is the giant Macy's that wants a big billboard. Land value taxes are meant to prevent people from having relatively empty plots, like a big estate or a vacant plot, but there's already something here. Maybe it's not being used to its full potential but that would involve figuring out what it would take to actually develop and the future income against what the LVT would be. A dilapidated building serving as a billboard structure (plus the Sunglass Hut lease) is easy money, why upset that?
Not per se. In fact, land tax is extremely important to encourage things moving and economy growing.
It's the implementation that can be evil.