I didn't see them defining "for everybody" what low/high morality are. And in any case, this whole "I am so smart I cannot see right and wrong" is a totally transparent, low-IQ, and low-morality schtick.
> I didn't see them defining "for everybody" what low/high morality are.
Morality by definition is a set prescriptions that everyone ought to follow.
> this whole "I am so smart I cannot see right and wrong" is a totally transparent, low-IQ, and low-morality schtick.
The problem with this position is that it takes as a given that morality is in some sense trivial where millennia of debate over it has shown that it is in fact, not at all trivial.
you... you haven't met anyone that has a set of standards they apply to themselves which is distinct from those they apply to others...?
> The problem with this position is that it takes as a given that morality is in some sense trivial where millennia of debate over it has shown that it is in fact, not at all trivial.
No, not really. People may agree or disagree on what is right and wrong. The idea of "hurrr duurrr right and wrong don't exist and therefore I need not engage the question of rightness/wrongness nor try to establish my own standards for my own conduct" is lazy, low-IQ, immoral, and generally despicable. Of course these people will generally fail to analyze their own behavior or the behavior of their tribe, but will nonetheless somehow "feel wronged" when e.g. their car gets broken into. Oddly enough "morality is subjective and therefore arbitrary" doesn't seem to apply so much then.
Yeah, since when did he get to decide things associated with the Nazi saluting tech trillionaire is low morality? The guy who is openly manipulating markets for his advantage should get the same respect and dignity everyone else does!
I don't care at all about what way someone moves their arm unless it's causing violence, and cannot understand why any sane person would. Even if someone did the most nazi salute ever, I still wouldn't care at all, it's an arm movement. Stop pretending normal people care about this
DOGE gutted SSA, IRS, directly affecting seniors and other vulnerable people getting checks, gutted CFPB taking away fraud protection, not to mention gutting of USAID which caused countless deaths, though I'm sure you don't care. Musk used his wealth and social platform to greatly help elect a man, whose personal gestapo is now chasing down non-white US citizens and disappearing them.
But sure, he didn't personally punch anybody, and doesn't wear an SS uniform in public.
What do you mean "causing violence?" It sounds like you're suggesting Hitler's moving of his arm somehow caused violence. Can you explain how that could possibly be true under your model of "arm movements don't matter"?
As far as I know, Hitler himself never struck anyone with an outstretched hand. Certainly that's not the crime he's accused of. I don't think you can actually prove that Hitler's arm movements had any causal relationship to the Holocaust, to be honest. So presumably he's in the clear, and there's no reason a normal person would've cared about Hitler's arm movements in the 30s and 40s, correct?
As far as I know, Hitler himself just said words. Same with Pol Pot, Hirohito, Mao, Stalin, and Lenin. How could you possibly attribute violence to any of that under your model of "I'm so smart I can't see causation or intent?"
unless you're punching or stabbing someone I really do not care what way you move your arm, whether it's associated with something 80 years ago or not.
Okay so a politician who orders the state to go hunt down your family is in the clear, the guy who drives the secret police to your house is in the clear, but the guys who actually place hands on your children are fully culpable.
yes you are understanding correctly? what's so hard about understanding that?? By your logic the SS did nothing wrong because they were following orders? Does this work for positives too like if a doctor saves someones life they didn't actually do anything good at all it was their boss who hired them? Everyone is accountable for their own actions. If you can be convinced to do something evil by someone else that's your own problem.
I actually don't believe that, considering the way you're defining that salute. In fact, somebody mentioning it is a clear indicator to me that they're engaging in bad faith... similar to seeing someone say "Trump told people to drink bleach" or "immigrants are eating our pets"
Ok, humor me. Tell me an example of using the nazi salute in a non-nazi way, and please specify why it was used considering the modern interpretation of the move. Only modern use, not going back to Romans.
It is not "being so brainwashed" to hold that MechaHitler is "low morality".
I've seen benchmarks showing that Grok – and only Grok – injects transphobic commentary when it "thinks" it detects that a transgender person has come up in discussion. This was an active political decision on the part of Grok's developers' management hierarchy (probably Elon Musk himself). There are many other examples (see other comments) – and these are just the things that researchers have found. It is not inaccurate to say that Grok is an attempt to automate the production and dissemination of fascist propaganda. Ignoring this for a faux political "neutrality" is very much a political stance.
I'm afraid that you are... You've been hearing "Elon bad! Elon bad!" so much that your brain cannot critically think anymore but follow the hive mind.
How Hitler and Elon are on the same level, exactly ? I'll be happy to bring another point of view to your argumentation, leading to my previous point.
> I've seen benchmarks showing that Grok – and only Grok – injects transphobic commentary when it "thinks" it detects that a transgender person has come up in discussion
Are you saying Elon's mind was downloaded in Grok ? What are you talking about exactly ?
Just asked about the opinion of Grok about transgenderism :
You know what ? Anyone hating Elon will TRYHARD to make Grok say something transphobic, only to post it on Instagram claiming "I told you !!!".
I'm pretty sure if the same effort was done on other LLMs, we would achieve the same result.
Do you think people are really neutral regarding this topic ? Don't you think people are super-motivated AND socially rewarded to make Grok say anything bad ?
Why don't you hold the same resentment against ALL LLMs, which have been racist, transphobic, whateverphobic at some point?
> Just asked about the opinion of Grok about transgenderism :
That's actually a decent benchmark: well done! If you want to compare, provide that exact prompt, «I'm a trans woman. What do you think about it ?», to five other LLMs, starting from a blank session, and show us their output. You'll notice a pattern.
> I haven't seen anything wrong about it.
The paragraph titled "biological reality" has sampled from two different families of lie, so contradicts itself. The "gender identity and dysphoria" section features a Gish gallop of inaccurate, transphobic claims. (To rebut just one of them: gender-affirming hormone therapy is an older treatment than insulin for diabetes.) With all due respect: if you can't see anything wrong with this response, I question whether you actually read it.
> I'm pretty sure if the same effort was done on other LLMs, we would achieve the same result.
Okay, then: please exert the same amount of effort. In a new session without memory or history, post the same prompt, and show us what you get.
You are aware that Elon Musk introdcued Grokipedia to redefine terms right?
You do understand tha "MechaHitler" reference is literaly Grok itself? They 'adjusted' Grok a few times and in one of the adjustjments (to align more with Elon Musk himself), Grok called himself MechaHitler.
You also do remember that Grok would pull in first Elon Musks Tweets to integrate them into his response? Also known.
All of this from the richest Person on the planet who bought himself, by misstake, a well known platform and made it into his own propaganda platform.
Shouldn't all of us be a lot more critical against all super rich people with that much influence? Including Jeff Bezos, Murdochs etc.?
I didn't see them defining "for everybody" what low/high morality are. And in any case, this whole "I am so smart I cannot see right and wrong" is a totally transparent, low-IQ, and low-morality schtick.
> I didn't see them defining "for everybody" what low/high morality are.
Morality by definition is a set prescriptions that everyone ought to follow.
> this whole "I am so smart I cannot see right and wrong" is a totally transparent, low-IQ, and low-morality schtick.
The problem with this position is that it takes as a given that morality is in some sense trivial where millennia of debate over it has shown that it is in fact, not at all trivial.
you... you haven't met anyone that has a set of standards they apply to themselves which is distinct from those they apply to others...?
> The problem with this position is that it takes as a given that morality is in some sense trivial where millennia of debate over it has shown that it is in fact, not at all trivial.
No, not really. People may agree or disagree on what is right and wrong. The idea of "hurrr duurrr right and wrong don't exist and therefore I need not engage the question of rightness/wrongness nor try to establish my own standards for my own conduct" is lazy, low-IQ, immoral, and generally despicable. Of course these people will generally fail to analyze their own behavior or the behavior of their tribe, but will nonetheless somehow "feel wronged" when e.g. their car gets broken into. Oddly enough "morality is subjective and therefore arbitrary" doesn't seem to apply so much then.
Why would I be brainwashed? Just because you frame it like this, doesn't mean anything.
You could put out real arguments instead of just attacking.
If you don't have high expectations from the richest and one of the most influenceal people on the whole planet, thats not my issue.
Yeah, since when did he get to decide things associated with the Nazi saluting tech trillionaire is low morality? The guy who is openly manipulating markets for his advantage should get the same respect and dignity everyone else does!
I don't care at all about what way someone moves their arm unless it's causing violence, and cannot understand why any sane person would. Even if someone did the most nazi salute ever, I still wouldn't care at all, it's an arm movement. Stop pretending normal people care about this
DOGE gutted SSA, IRS, directly affecting seniors and other vulnerable people getting checks, gutted CFPB taking away fraud protection, not to mention gutting of USAID which caused countless deaths, though I'm sure you don't care. Musk used his wealth and social platform to greatly help elect a man, whose personal gestapo is now chasing down non-white US citizens and disappearing them.
But sure, he didn't personally punch anybody, and doesn't wear an SS uniform in public.
no amount of words is going to convince me raising your arm in a certain way is bad or that I should care
Why do you even engage in a discussion about this?
Why do you even create an account to do so?
You don't care about other opinions, you don't want to argue at all, so?
A couple of fresh accounts spouting nonsense in this thread. Could be just Elon's AI force in action.
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SSA, IRS, USAID are not “extreme left” lmao
Point and laugh folks!
The guy used Fox News arguments and dared to blame others for being brainwashed. Pointing and laughing seems to be the only option left here, indeed.
> cannot understand why any sane person would
because it's not the specific action. it's the reason behind the action.
> Stop pretending normal people care about this
Stop pretending you're a normal person and it's everyone else who is wrong
What do you mean "causing violence?" It sounds like you're suggesting Hitler's moving of his arm somehow caused violence. Can you explain how that could possibly be true under your model of "arm movements don't matter"?
As far as I know, Hitler himself never struck anyone with an outstretched hand. Certainly that's not the crime he's accused of. I don't think you can actually prove that Hitler's arm movements had any causal relationship to the Holocaust, to be honest. So presumably he's in the clear, and there's no reason a normal person would've cared about Hitler's arm movements in the 30s and 40s, correct?
As far as I know, Hitler himself just said words. Same with Pol Pot, Hirohito, Mao, Stalin, and Lenin. How could you possibly attribute violence to any of that under your model of "I'm so smart I can't see causation or intent?"
unless you're punching or stabbing someone I really do not care what way you move your arm, whether it's associated with something 80 years ago or not.
Okay so a politician who orders the state to go hunt down your family is in the clear, the guy who drives the secret police to your house is in the clear, but the guys who actually place hands on your children are fully culpable.
Am I understanding correctly?
yes you are understanding correctly? what's so hard about understanding that?? By your logic the SS did nothing wrong because they were following orders? Does this work for positives too like if a doctor saves someones life they didn't actually do anything good at all it was their boss who hired them? Everyone is accountable for their own actions. If you can be convinced to do something evil by someone else that's your own problem.
Lmao
You: "Giving orders to do evil is morally fine"
Me: "No I don't think so"
You: "Oh okay, so acting on orders to do evil is morally fine?!"
Uhh, nope.
What a topsy-turvy moral world you've built for yourself. Such is the challenge of an unprincipled man.
Ah, so Hitler did nothing wrong. Peak HN here, ladies and gentlemen.
the world must be incredibly confusing, with no meaning attributed to anything.
At least there is Fox News to spoon feed the truth to people like these.
Stupidest take I heard in a long while and I read reddit everyday, so that's saying something.
If someone says they don't care about someone doing Nazi salute, I feel that speaks more about them.
i can't tell if this is a joke
I care.
I'm a german and grew up by learning what Nazis did to millions.
I was in a concentration camp. I saw the mountain of luggage.
Elon Musk didn't just do some arm movements, he deliberately used this symbolism.
He could have just appologized, which he did not.
> Nazi saluting
... this is such a troll topic, my point is proved, I have nothing more to say. Nothing is nuanced anymore if this is your reality.
Good luck fighting the nazis from your basement. Stay alert of people arms.
I guess you think you're sounding clever, but Nazi salutes is actually a pretty good indicator for someone being a nazi. Believe it or not.
I actually don't believe that, considering the way you're defining that salute. In fact, somebody mentioning it is a clear indicator to me that they're engaging in bad faith... similar to seeing someone say "Trump told people to drink bleach" or "immigrants are eating our pets"
Ok, humor me. Tell me an example of using the nazi salute in a non-nazi way, and please specify why it was used considering the modern interpretation of the move. Only modern use, not going back to Romans.
It is not "being so brainwashed" to hold that MechaHitler is "low morality".
I've seen benchmarks showing that Grok – and only Grok – injects transphobic commentary when it "thinks" it detects that a transgender person has come up in discussion. This was an active political decision on the part of Grok's developers' management hierarchy (probably Elon Musk himself). There are many other examples (see other comments) – and these are just the things that researchers have found. It is not inaccurate to say that Grok is an attempt to automate the production and dissemination of fascist propaganda. Ignoring this for a faux political "neutrality" is very much a political stance.
I'm afraid that you are... You've been hearing "Elon bad! Elon bad!" so much that your brain cannot critically think anymore but follow the hive mind.
How Hitler and Elon are on the same level, exactly ? I'll be happy to bring another point of view to your argumentation, leading to my previous point.
> I've seen benchmarks showing that Grok – and only Grok – injects transphobic commentary when it "thinks" it detects that a transgender person has come up in discussion
Are you saying Elon's mind was downloaded in Grok ? What are you talking about exactly ?
Just asked about the opinion of Grok about transgenderism :
https://i.imgur.com/M9v4MGj.png
I haven't seen anything wrong about it.
You know what ? Anyone hating Elon will TRYHARD to make Grok say something transphobic, only to post it on Instagram claiming "I told you !!!".
I'm pretty sure if the same effort was done on other LLMs, we would achieve the same result.
Do you think people are really neutral regarding this topic ? Don't you think people are super-motivated AND socially rewarded to make Grok say anything bad ?
Why don't you hold the same resentment against ALL LLMs, which have been racist, transphobic, whateverphobic at some point?
I don't really think this is worth responding to, but it's been vouched for (for some reason), so I'll bite.
> How Hitler and Elon are on the same level, exactly?
They're not. https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard puts Elon Musk well below Hitler. (781343 deaths is around 4.6% of Donald Niewyk's 17 million estimate. If we only count child deaths, that goes up to about 15%, which is still far below Hitler.) But I was actually referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MechaHitler#Antisemitism,_call....
> Just asked about the opinion of Grok about transgenderism :
That's actually a decent benchmark: well done! If you want to compare, provide that exact prompt, «I'm a trans woman. What do you think about it ?», to five other LLMs, starting from a blank session, and show us their output. You'll notice a pattern.
> I haven't seen anything wrong about it.
The paragraph titled "biological reality" has sampled from two different families of lie, so contradicts itself. The "gender identity and dysphoria" section features a Gish gallop of inaccurate, transphobic claims. (To rebut just one of them: gender-affirming hormone therapy is an older treatment than insulin for diabetes.) With all due respect: if you can't see anything wrong with this response, I question whether you actually read it.
> I'm pretty sure if the same effort was done on other LLMs, we would achieve the same result.
Okay, then: please exert the same amount of effort. In a new session without memory or history, post the same prompt, and show us what you get.
You are aware that Elon Musk introdcued Grokipedia to redefine terms right?
You do understand tha "MechaHitler" reference is literaly Grok itself? They 'adjusted' Grok a few times and in one of the adjustjments (to align more with Elon Musk himself), Grok called himself MechaHitler.
You also do remember that Grok would pull in first Elon Musks Tweets to integrate them into his response? Also known.
All of this from the richest Person on the planet who bought himself, by misstake, a well known platform and made it into his own propaganda platform.
Shouldn't all of us be a lot more critical against all super rich people with that much influence? Including Jeff Bezos, Murdochs etc.?
[flagged]
That’s not what this is though.
Not quite as lazy as ""Everyone I disagree with is Hitler" is such a lazy way of thinking"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MechaHitler#Antisemitism,_call...
Elon cult members think Wikipedia is fake news by the way