The starting point of casting a horoscope is calculating the apparent locations (this means "where you would have seen them had you looked up there and then") of a whole bunch of celestial objects at the time and place where a particular person was born.
You won't (write software to) do that without knowing a whole bunch of linear algebra and ODEs.
The fortune-telling part is not what needs the math degree.
Does the quality of the astrology depend on the correctness of celestial object positioning? I always assumed it had more to do with the "bedside manner" of the practitioner, and less to do with any measurable falsifiable phenomenon.
You can't do good astrology if the underlying math calculations are wrong. Most mainstream Western astrology uses Placidus houses and then places planets in signs within those houses. From the planetary placements aspects (angles) are calculated.
The sign that a planet is in, which house, and aspects between the planets are what enables astrological fortune-telling and prediction (the forecasting aspect of astrology is technically known as transits and progressions, this is the "predicting the future" piece).
The bedside manner of the astrologer obviously has an enormous influence. One astrologer will look at a chart and treat it as a fixed "you are this way because of your chart" as if you can't change. A more thoughtful (read: actually good) astrologer will treat the chart as an evolutionary blueprint for growth and change. In many ways astrology is really just a different version of psychology and counseling.
A great book to read if you're open-minded but also don't want a bunch of "woo" is to check The Inner Sky by Steven Forrest. The first chapter of the book is called "Why Bother?" For what it's worth I had my chart read by Steven and it has really helped me in my life.
Are you sure? I can see for Astronomy that's a branch of physics so sure, there's loads of tricky practical mathematics so if you're bad at mathematics you'll get stuff wrong, but surely for Astrology since it's just bullshit anyway you don't need to do mathematics as it wouldn't make a difference?
A horoscope is a fine mixture of fortune-telling bullshit and verifiable astronomical facts. The latter have the form of "where the celestial bodies could be seen at the hour of the client's birth", or "does Jupiter currently appear to be moving forward or backward in the sky".
The average Visual Basic programmer and the world's best mathematician are going to be about equally good at writing the fortune-telling part, but the mathematician will have a much easier time getting the factual part right.
Alright, you're on - post the place you were born, including date and time and I'll cast your chart and tell you what I see. Then you can tell me if you think it's bullshit or not.
Astrology is a mixture of factual verifiable information (such as apparent positions of celestial bodies at the time and location a certain person was born) and random baseless divinations.
The "whale" users who account for a disproportionately large percentage of an astrologer's revenue tend to know the factual information surrounding their birth fairly well. An app/astrologer who doesn't get these facts right, even for a handful of clients, will get a bad reputation fairly quickly.
I reckon the same principle would hold in cultural bubbles where reading tea leaves is a customary means of divination. If the client recognizes recognize black tea, but the fortuneteller insists it is rooibos, there won't be much trust in the rest of the prophecy.
Advertising that the horoscope shop uses Haskell is actually a solid business idea. It pre-filters for the sort of dev who will be able to do the math.
OK, I replied elsewhere without realising where you were going with this.
My impression (not interested in pseudo sciences so I haven't looked into this hard) was that Astrology froze before Kepler explains how the planets move, and so the model used by astrologers is just wrong and won't actually tell you what was in the sky when you were born for example?
You don't need Newton (who figured out why they do that) but you do need Kepler or your physical data will be wrong surely? It won't matter because this isn't actually a way to divine the future, but it will be wrong AIUI
Astrology didn't really freeze. The apparent position of celestial objects was important for mundane reasons such as navigation until the 1970s, and the people who compiled nautical almanacs kept doing astrological fortune telling on the side for extra cash, using the very same math for both. Kepler himself cast horoscopes as a side hustle, including for the Holy Roman Emperor, using the same (back then cutting edge) techniques and data that he used for serious work.
Modern ascendant calculations are "correct", in the sense that they'll match what you see in the sky. Apps like AstroMatrix work from NASA data.
As you rightly observed, it doesn't make a difference when it comes to foretelling the future. But it does make a difference if your aim is to make money selling it. The big spenders on these applications often care a great deal about getting the particulars just so.
Astrology and Haskell are quite similar in that both are much much easier to do if you have a math degree.
For what it's worth, one of my classmates pivoted into astrology, and we majored in Applied Mathematics.
Ok, I'll bite. How does a math degree help with astrology?
The starting point of casting a horoscope is calculating the apparent locations (this means "where you would have seen them had you looked up there and then") of a whole bunch of celestial objects at the time and place where a particular person was born.
You won't (write software to) do that without knowing a whole bunch of linear algebra and ODEs.
The fortune-telling part is not what needs the math degree.
Does the quality of the astrology depend on the correctness of celestial object positioning? I always assumed it had more to do with the "bedside manner" of the practitioner, and less to do with any measurable falsifiable phenomenon.
You can't do good astrology if the underlying math calculations are wrong. Most mainstream Western astrology uses Placidus houses and then places planets in signs within those houses. From the planetary placements aspects (angles) are calculated.
The sign that a planet is in, which house, and aspects between the planets are what enables astrological fortune-telling and prediction (the forecasting aspect of astrology is technically known as transits and progressions, this is the "predicting the future" piece).
The bedside manner of the astrologer obviously has an enormous influence. One astrologer will look at a chart and treat it as a fixed "you are this way because of your chart" as if you can't change. A more thoughtful (read: actually good) astrologer will treat the chart as an evolutionary blueprint for growth and change. In many ways astrology is really just a different version of psychology and counseling.
A great book to read if you're open-minded but also don't want a bunch of "woo" is to check The Inner Sky by Steven Forrest. The first chapter of the book is called "Why Bother?" For what it's worth I had my chart read by Steven and it has really helped me in my life.
> You can't do good astrology if the underlying math calculations are wrong.
So? The people who believe astrology readings would believe them even if the maths is wrong.
The readings themselves don't match outcomes anyway, so it's not like the buyers of readings can even tell that the maths was wrong!
Are you sure? I can see for Astronomy that's a branch of physics so sure, there's loads of tricky practical mathematics so if you're bad at mathematics you'll get stuff wrong, but surely for Astrology since it's just bullshit anyway you don't need to do mathematics as it wouldn't make a difference?
A horoscope is a fine mixture of fortune-telling bullshit and verifiable astronomical facts. The latter have the form of "where the celestial bodies could be seen at the hour of the client's birth", or "does Jupiter currently appear to be moving forward or backward in the sky".
The average Visual Basic programmer and the world's best mathematician are going to be about equally good at writing the fortune-telling part, but the mathematician will have a much easier time getting the factual part right.
I don't think the kinds of people that believe astrology are actually verifying the astronomy though.
> since it's just bullshit anyway
Alright, you're on - post the place you were born, including date and time and I'll cast your chart and tell you what I see. Then you can tell me if you think it's bullshit or not.
Free reading, you have nothing to lose.
Example: Milpitas, CA @ 4:52am January 24 1987
> An unusual conjunction for sure.
I see what you did there
Using Haskell for a horoscope app is like hiring a mathematician to read tea leaves
Astrology is a mixture of factual verifiable information (such as apparent positions of celestial bodies at the time and location a certain person was born) and random baseless divinations.
The "whale" users who account for a disproportionately large percentage of an astrologer's revenue tend to know the factual information surrounding their birth fairly well. An app/astrologer who doesn't get these facts right, even for a handful of clients, will get a bad reputation fairly quickly.
I reckon the same principle would hold in cultural bubbles where reading tea leaves is a customary means of divination. If the client recognizes recognize black tea, but the fortuneteller insists it is rooibos, there won't be much trust in the rest of the prophecy.
Advertising that the horoscope shop uses Haskell is actually a solid business idea. It pre-filters for the sort of dev who will be able to do the math.
OK, I replied elsewhere without realising where you were going with this.
My impression (not interested in pseudo sciences so I haven't looked into this hard) was that Astrology froze before Kepler explains how the planets move, and so the model used by astrologers is just wrong and won't actually tell you what was in the sky when you were born for example?
You don't need Newton (who figured out why they do that) but you do need Kepler or your physical data will be wrong surely? It won't matter because this isn't actually a way to divine the future, but it will be wrong AIUI
Astrology didn't really freeze. The apparent position of celestial objects was important for mundane reasons such as navigation until the 1970s, and the people who compiled nautical almanacs kept doing astrological fortune telling on the side for extra cash, using the very same math for both. Kepler himself cast horoscopes as a side hustle, including for the Holy Roman Emperor, using the same (back then cutting edge) techniques and data that he used for serious work.
Modern ascendant calculations are "correct", in the sense that they'll match what you see in the sky. Apps like AstroMatrix work from NASA data.
As you rightly observed, it doesn't make a difference when it comes to foretelling the future. But it does make a difference if your aim is to make money selling it. The big spenders on these applications often care a great deal about getting the particulars just so.
Thanks, makes sense.