If I say something illegal during a meeting, people will notice it and will report it to the police. Then I may get arrested or fined.
Why should it be different on the internet ? Provided we live in countries where freedom of speech is enacted.
Of course in Russia or china it's different but surely they already have tools like that.
It's not different on the internet. If you commit a crime on the internet it's still illegal and it can still be reported to the police.
What makes you suggest otherwise?
How do you "say something illegal" ?
You speak against the Party or its leaders.
The Trump administration has been treating dissent as illegal speech/behavior. It would be reasonable to presume that a replacement administration will continue this treatment.
Its not about saying illegal things. It's mostly about saying things that can get you canceled in future in future culture.
Dark jokes and strong opinions are example - you something filthy - let's say dark Holocaust/Nazi joke but funny in situation In group that accept it and it's ok. But if it's recorded, it'll stay forever and will surface in most unexpected moment, like job interview or some other screening by gov/corpos.
Don't say that dirty jokes should be punished in future if in given situation they were received as ok and only later someone else, not in situation is going to judge it
Are you arguing that Holocaust/Nazi jokes should be accepted socially, as long as you only deliver them to people who respond positively to Holocaust/Nazi jokes?
The world is not black and white and simple. Things could be taken out of context, and people tend to project.
People have got into trouble for having retold a controversial joke that they had heard, when the reason they retold had been because they themselves had been upset about it.
I too don't think that holocaust jokes should be accepted, but sometimes people say things because they don't know better at the time. There have been cases of people retelling "dog whistles" without having understood their contextual meaning for certain groups. I've even seen politicians use the phrase "Works sets you free" without understanding why it is inappropriate. People learn and change, but old posts can linger on the Internet for a long time.
What if your phone listens to you all the time so it can detect "ok google" or "alexa" 24/7 but you happen to say something illegal with your device ID?
What if you brain storm a book/plot idea with a friend aloud and moments later the police knocks on your door because some system said you are about to commit a crime?
What if your neuralink reports unacceptable thoughts to the police?
Because perfect law enforcement means society can never change. Imagine if, back when it was illegal to be gay, every gay person was immediately sentenced. Do you think we'd be accepting homosexuality today?
Yes, because the zeitgeist still changes regardless of enforcement. If all gay people were sentenced purely for their sexuality and nothing else, how long do you think it will take for ordinary folk to change their view? I reckon not long, unless the society is completely devoid of empathy and justice.
If you think that a society that actively harassed and persecuted homosexuals would spontaneously take pity on them, we have such different understandings on the world that debate can't be productive.
Then I'm disappointed that you would think that way. Change is the only constant, in people, in societies, in politics. Change can be spontaneous, but more of then than not, it is slow, gradual, boring, but still change nonetheless. Would you concede to that?
Change doesn't happen by itself. If you take all the people who want the change and put them in prison, nothing will change.
I hope we're still talking about homosexuality, because you can have support for gay people without being gay. There were more than just black people who protested against what happened to George Floyd. You can absolutely have empathy towards people not exactly like yourself.
> If I say something illegal
A situation that should be impossible due to freedom of speech.
Here are some crimes you can commit by speaking, where freedom of speech cannot be used as a defence:
- assault / terror threats
- extortion / blackmail
- fraud
- conspiracy / solicitation to commit a crime
- treason / sedition
- perjury
- slander
> sedition
Sedition, the bugbear of would-be censors, has never really caught on as a tool of prosecutors in the US. There have been several attempts to use laws against sedition to attack dissidents in the US, but only a few cases have stuck, and it was usually during wartime or with extremely unfavorable defendants. Courts have (rightly) slapped down most uses of sedition laws as violations of free speech.
Slander isn't a crime in most places.
Because it has been shown that even if freedom is speech is a right that people will still be afraid to speak up if they know they are being monitored. Because the reality is that even if you are allowed to speak you might still be punished through other means.
This is much bigger than saying something illegal on the internet. This is about not being able to criticize your government without fear of retribution. Or how about if this was possible 60 years ago. Gays would have been all caught and gay rights never emerged. Or say you are discussing wanting an abortion and are arrested for arrested for it because at that point in time it is made illegal. The right to have private communication is integral to a free and democratic society. Morals change. Beliefs change. This is good. If you are monitored for everything we will be oppressed and stuck with no way to progress and grow.
I feel we are there already.
The weather is a bit rainy now but there is sun in the forecast for afternoon.
^^^ that is all we have left to discuss already in personal conversations at work anyways.