Ok so why I don’t have access to this if I already pay for the max plan? Should I pay a security researcher to run codex on my code? Is this how it is supposed to work? Let’s hope we get some real cyber models that people can actually use from the Chinese without the stupid application forms.
Why does paying for the max plan build the expectation that you get access to everything?
“Max” leads me to believe I have the maximum level of access
Maybe that’s just a naming problem then. But even if they called it “Ultra Max Super Pro,” I still wouldn’t assume it means access to every future capability, every internal tool, or every restricted model they ever build.
To me, “Max” means the highest tier of the product they’re currently offering to that customer segment, not an unlimited claim on everything the company possesses.
Again, for me this has just been a very strange argument I keep seeing around these plans. It’s obvious the plans are subsidized and I am happy to take advantage of that in the near term but I would be a fool to think my $200/month account buys any special access.
But it did give us access to frontier models through the history of the plan, and up until what a week ago now
you'll need the Max Plus plan for that, buddy
And the prostitute really does love you and Your Call really Is Important To Us.
That's a little snarkier than strictly appropriate in this forum but you cannot seriously and in good faith say that this is the first time you've seen advertisements 'exagerrate' the truth.
Nobody said anything about it being the first time seeing it. You still get to be upset when lied to.
Why do you think you should have access…? People who pay enterprise API rates also don’t if this makes you feel better (it shouldn’t, you shouldn’t have felt bad in the first place)
I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing for? There are massive companies that collectively profiting off of stolen IP and are now gatekeeping even their paid offerings - surely consumers will rail against this? Personally, I feel very bad and can't wait for Chinese models to continue improving as much as they can prior OpenAI's and Anthropic's IPOs.
I’m not arguing for anything, actually. The ‘fair’ ship has sailed, even if the pirates somehow get shut down (which would be suicide by USG, won’t happen, national security issue), open Chinese models are not even hiding the fact that they distill from the frontier US labs, thus benefiting indirectly from the stolen content.
Note I don’t particularly like the ‘stolen’ word here as I don’t like when the music and film companies use it in the same context. Copyright infringement? Sure. Theft? No.
> I don’t particularly like the ‘stolen’ word here
Except that's the standard that we've measured everyone with up until the LLM/generative tech boom. I don't see why the benchmarks should change now. I realise my argument doesn't move reality but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade a spade. Said companies carried out theft (or copyright infringement if you prefer) at industrial scale which is far more reprehensible crime against humanity than anything the individuals we think of as "digital pirates" have committed.
> open Chinese models are not even hiding the fact that they distill from the frontier US labs
The difference is they return to the same system that they feed from (indirectly); people get access to model weights even if the entire model isn't open source. The same can't be said for OpenAI, Anthropic, Google etc (who also benefit from Chinese models and train on them).
Sure, the alternatives aren't a panacea of fairness but I'd much rather advocate for and support the thieves who give me a better deal if my choice is limited to thieves. Especially if thieves aren't hostile to their customers like Anthropic is (which is why I replied to you in the first place).
And the Chinese models rip IP just like everyone else before them. Your argument is moot.
This was a problem for 5+ years ago. Nobody cares or at least the majority voice does not care across the world. Cat is out of the bag and there is no way to put it back in.
EDIT: Worth noting that I have long held the belief that if you put data out on the public sidewalk that you should have low to no expectation that it’s IP. It’s how I think about Google Maps data for example. If they want to reap the benefits by not walking it off the a user login than they can feel the pain if folks use that information. Same applies for media that has been bought, Reddit comments or any other datasets.
> And the Chinese models rip IP just like everyone else before them.
The difference is the Chinese models return to the same system that they feed from (indirectly); people get access to model weights even if the entire model isn't open source. The same can't be said for OpenAI, Anthropic, Google etc (who also benefit from Chinese models and train on them).
Further, Chinese models are significantly cheaper and the comapnies aren't hostile to their customers.
> Worth noting that I have long held the belief that if you put data out on the public sidewalk that you should have low to no expectation that it’s IP.
Except your beliefs aren't the cornerstone of modern jurisprudence. Why are models able to reliably produce replicas of Ghibli movies which go well beyond any example you listed?
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