That doesn't mean it has to gratify your curiosity or mine - no single article can do that for everyone. But it's clear that that's what makes the article on topic.
One other aspect: the best HN submissions are the ones that are most uncorrelated with anything else that's gotten attention recently - or, as I used to put it, can't be predicted from any existing sequence*. This one has that property for sure!
Hi dang, sorry to ping you here again. I emailed back about a week ago but haven't heard back. My posts are still showing up as [dead] immediately after submission even with non-dev.to URLs. Would appreciate it if you could take a look when you get a chance. Thanks!
Well-made leather shoes have none of those drawbacks (besides polishing; nothing to do about that). When I was in high school my grandmother bought me a pair of (eye-wateringly expensive, partially hand-made) dress shoes. I can remember the style (dance-Oxford), but not the maker. I wore them for graduation, and then for another decade of restaurant and catering work. I regularly spent 10+ hours in a day in them, walking I don't know how far, and they were (with a soft-gel insole inside) as comfortable as a pair of sneakers - though indeed, not so good for running. I think I replaced the soles twice, before too much restaurant-damage on the uppers forced their retirement. More than 20 years after their demise, and I still miss them.
I don't think the raw material shoes are made of is that important. If their shape is correct and you size them right, they should be fine.
Shoes with a narrow toebox (pretty much all of them, except the ones that specifically advertise as being wide) should be considered extreme body modification IMO. Fine if that's what you're into, but most of the population should not be subjected to that.
Football (soccer) boots tend to be extremely narrow. Part of the reason is to keep the foot firm in it, but I suspect a lot of players would benefit from wider boxes.
Climbing boots are another interesting one. I can't wear most brands at all. I have settled on Scarpa as they tend to be wider. A lot of climbers have a tendency to downsize them massively though, and I honestly don't know how they do that. I have been purchasing them at least at my street size, and the next pair I get will be a whole number up. Not because they're just uncomfortable, but rather because they're nearly impossible to get in otherwise. I do wish I'd find wider toeboxes though, so I could get a pair that fits tight, but not torture tight.
Skiing is another one like climbing. Its only recently where higher volumes and wider forefoots are available, and they still try to tell you to go a size down.
Red Wings apparently have some Munson lasts, mentioned when I was investigating the topic earlier, though I don't know for which models or if they match what you're looking for.
They have an excellent quality reputation, though new boots are spendy. Used show up occasionally.
Brands such as Rolling Dub Trio and John Lofgren use Munson lasts that closely resemble the original shape; other makers, such as Nicks Boots, Viberg, and Iron Boots have lasts that draw direct inspiration from that shape.
From reading about the leather shoes are supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. And I think they actually do last much longer than modern shoes made from synthetic materials, which you can’t really care for.
And they’re supposed to mold to your foot.
I feel like everyone is reading "leather shoe" and interpreting it as "dress shoe," but tennis shoes/trainers are usually leather, too. Sandals, moccasins, etc. Leather is a material. My ON running shoes are leather. My legit hiking shoes are leather. So are the kung fu shoes I used twenty years ago to fly through the fucking air with swords.
Almost all my dozen or so pairs of shoes and boots are leather and the only of these that I find true is that they’re not great for running. At least none of the ones I have.
If they fit poorly, you bought the wrong size or a pair made from a last that is very wrong for you. Ditto if they hurt your feet. Past a the first 3-4 wears of break-in neither of those should be true, they should fit and feel awesome. They’ll shrink if you soak them in water, and I mean soak, but even that’s usually not fatal to them, they’ll stretch back out. I have a beater pair of camp moccasins that I’ve straight-up walked down a waist-deep river in three times, and I regularly wear them for kayaking and briefly submerge them when getting in and out, and they still fit fine.
Also you don’t need to polish most of them. Hit ‘em with leather soap and conditioner a couple times a year if you want them to last a decade-plus, yes. Polish? That’s only necessary for certain types of shoes for certain purposes, and even then, you shouldn’t need to do it all the time or anything. I don’t put polish on any of mine.
(All this void if we’re talking reconstructed or fake leather like most of the “leather” shoes at the median Macy’s or other common department store, those are terrible, yeah)
None of these things are true about the material. They're all true of poorly-made shoes.
Also that's a very broad category. "Leather shoes." That's like nearly every dress and athletic shoe that exists. IT's all traditional moccasins. IT's a lot of the best sandals, which certainly don't have any of the problems you've listed.
> Speaking of shoes
Can you please avoid generic tangents? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
"Shoes" is about as generic as one could get in a single hop from the topic.
Okay, fine, but how on earth is the posted article submission even on-topic for the site? And for the front page?
Anything that gratifies intellectual curiosity is on topic for HN! - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
That doesn't mean it has to gratify your curiosity or mine - no single article can do that for everyone. But it's clear that that's what makes the article on topic.
One other aspect: the best HN submissions are the ones that are most uncorrelated with anything else that's gotten attention recently - or, as I used to put it, can't be predicted from any existing sequence*. This one has that property for sure!
* https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
Hi dang, sorry to ping you here again. I emailed back about a week ago but haven't heard back. My posts are still showing up as [dead] immediately after submission even with non-dev.to URLs. Would appreciate it if you could take a look when you get a chance. Thanks!
Well-made leather shoes have none of those drawbacks (besides polishing; nothing to do about that). When I was in high school my grandmother bought me a pair of (eye-wateringly expensive, partially hand-made) dress shoes. I can remember the style (dance-Oxford), but not the maker. I wore them for graduation, and then for another decade of restaurant and catering work. I regularly spent 10+ hours in a day in them, walking I don't know how far, and they were (with a soft-gel insole inside) as comfortable as a pair of sneakers - though indeed, not so good for running. I think I replaced the soles twice, before too much restaurant-damage on the uppers forced their retirement. More than 20 years after their demise, and I still miss them.
I don't think the raw material shoes are made of is that important. If their shape is correct and you size them right, they should be fine.
Shoes with a narrow toebox (pretty much all of them, except the ones that specifically advertise as being wide) should be considered extreme body modification IMO. Fine if that's what you're into, but most of the population should not be subjected to that.
I agree. The US Army already recognized this problem and developed the Munson last before WWI.
Some mid and high-end footwear brands produce boots with Munson or Munson-like lasts. It helps tremendously. I cannot go back to narrow toeboxes.
Oddly, lots of sports footwear suffers from the same issue and wide toeboxes are not as popular as they should be.
Sports footwear is interesting.
Football (soccer) boots tend to be extremely narrow. Part of the reason is to keep the foot firm in it, but I suspect a lot of players would benefit from wider boxes.
Climbing boots are another interesting one. I can't wear most brands at all. I have settled on Scarpa as they tend to be wider. A lot of climbers have a tendency to downsize them massively though, and I honestly don't know how they do that. I have been purchasing them at least at my street size, and the next pair I get will be a whole number up. Not because they're just uncomfortable, but rather because they're nearly impossible to get in otherwise. I do wish I'd find wider toeboxes though, so I could get a pair that fits tight, but not torture tight.
Skiing is another one like climbing. Its only recently where higher volumes and wider forefoots are available, and they still try to tell you to go a size down.
TIL: "How The Munson Last Revolutionized Military Footwear" <https://www.stitchdown.com/info/munson-last-origins/>.
Any recommendations for the brands? I am looking for Derbies and Chukka boots
Red Wings apparently have some Munson lasts, mentioned when I was investigating the topic earlier, though I don't know for which models or if they match what you're looking for.
They have an excellent quality reputation, though new boots are spendy. Used show up occasionally.
More:
Brands such as Rolling Dub Trio and John Lofgren use Munson lasts that closely resemble the original shape; other makers, such as Nicks Boots, Viberg, and Iron Boots have lasts that draw direct inspiration from that shape.
<https://www.stitchdown.com/info/munson-last-origins/>
There are also results from an online search, though prices are ... high. I'm seeing $600+ for boots advertised as built on Munson lasts.
From reading about the leather shoes are supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. And I think they actually do last much longer than modern shoes made from synthetic materials, which you can’t really care for. And they’re supposed to mold to your foot.
The problems that you listed don't affect a lot of people in a way that they themselves might find meaningful.
Moreover, leather is a widely available product and a byproduct of the meat industry.
No shoes last longer than well fitting well made all leather shoes.
I feel like everyone is reading "leather shoe" and interpreting it as "dress shoe," but tennis shoes/trainers are usually leather, too. Sandals, moccasins, etc. Leather is a material. My ON running shoes are leather. My legit hiking shoes are leather. So are the kung fu shoes I used twenty years ago to fly through the fucking air with swords.
Leather shoes are shoes or boots made of leather, cork, and optionally steel and rubber. They last a really long time.
A shoe that has a leather upper and EVA foam makes up the rest of it is not a leather shoe. It’s a shoe with a leather upper.
Probably interpreting it that way because “bad for running” and “needs shoe polish” can’t possible be describing sports shoes with leather components.
Right. I'm taking personal offense to someone using "leather shoes" so inaccurately. :)
Almost all my dozen or so pairs of shoes and boots are leather and the only of these that I find true is that they’re not great for running. At least none of the ones I have.
If they fit poorly, you bought the wrong size or a pair made from a last that is very wrong for you. Ditto if they hurt your feet. Past a the first 3-4 wears of break-in neither of those should be true, they should fit and feel awesome. They’ll shrink if you soak them in water, and I mean soak, but even that’s usually not fatal to them, they’ll stretch back out. I have a beater pair of camp moccasins that I’ve straight-up walked down a waist-deep river in three times, and I regularly wear them for kayaking and briefly submerge them when getting in and out, and they still fit fine.
Also you don’t need to polish most of them. Hit ‘em with leather soap and conditioner a couple times a year if you want them to last a decade-plus, yes. Polish? That’s only necessary for certain types of shoes for certain purposes, and even then, you shouldn’t need to do it all the time or anything. I don’t put polish on any of mine.
(All this void if we’re talking reconstructed or fake leather like most of the “leather” shoes at the median Macy’s or other common department store, those are terrible, yeah)
There is probably a glut of leather.
Way ahead of you on that one (I don't put cow parts in my mouth, not going to put them on my feet either)
What?! I wore leather sport shoes for many years without any major issues. What should we use instead of leather?
None of these things are true about the material. They're all true of poorly-made shoes.
Also that's a very broad category. "Leather shoes." That's like nearly every dress and athletic shoe that exists. IT's all traditional moccasins. IT's a lot of the best sandals, which certainly don't have any of the problems you've listed.