BMW also makes rare-earths-free motors for their EVs and - at this very moment - theirs are far more advanced. They offer almost twice the power (up to 300kW vs 160kW) and are on a 800v architecture.
BMW also makes rare-earths-free motors for their EVs and - at this very moment - theirs are far more advanced. They offer almost twice the power (up to 300kW vs 160kW) and are on a 800v architecture.
The cheapest EV model Renault sells is around €20K, the cheapest BMW EV is around €65K.
It's safe to say the companies are not in the market bracket, no?
The bit the gets me more than the sale price is servicing.
BMWs have a terrible record for needing expensive repairs.
I know you shouldn’t rely on anecdote, but it seems I do.
The only way I would buy a BMW is if it were an EV. I’m just not brave (or rich) enough to buy their ICEs.
The BMW inline 6 were the best engines ever. Their inline 4 and other are a strong contender for the worst engines ever.
I assume you’re talking about the n52 vs n20. I’ve had both engines as daily drivers, and they’re both fine. The n20 has a bad rap due to early models failing from a timing chain guides breaking.
I miss my E39 530 every time I drive. My next 90s Jag is also going to be a straight-six; the V12 is glorious but heavy.
They suffer from some of the same problem your likely modern fridge does, and then kick it up two notches.
In the name of "safety", they have made design decisions such as integrating fuses directly into the very large and expensive control boards and making them non-replacable. Just in case this wasn't enough, they also tend to blow an OTP so that in the event that you have the know how to replace the fuses anyways, nothing will work. Naturally you also cannot just swap in a replacement board, as it needs to go through the same pairing process to the ECU as things like the car doors, which in most cases requires an active certificate/license on the ecu programmer that only dealerships/oem have.
This is a company intentionally making sure EVs didn’t erode service revenues
Simpler != more reliable. Electronics fail quite often too. Just ask SSDs.
Also new EVs fail often too due to being cost cut to the extreme with the "move fast and break things".
In theory they should be, but EVs also tend to be more computerised, proprietary and locked down than ICE cars, so in practice I think it's not as simple as that.
For example there was that case of the car that needed an entire new sealed €5k battery controller because it was in a minor crash and blew a fuse.
My garage charges 50% more for labour on EVs. I'm sure part of that is price discrimination but I bet part is also because working on them is more difficult. I would not be surprised if they need to pay more for access to the manufacturer's diagnostic tools too, which are becoming increasingly required.
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If you take care of the car it’s just brake pads, tires, rotors. Pads and rotors are really simple to DIY. Tires are more expensive than like… an Elantra, but if you’re buying a 60k car you can afford 1.2k in tires… otherwise don’t buy the car.
If you get into an accident or let the bmw get into disrepair via neglect, yeah it’s not cheap to clean up. Body work is expensive on any car though, and I don’t have sympathy for people who own higher-end cars and don’t take care of them, they deserve to pay the price for it.
It's more than that though. Any repairs due to wear and tear or whatever, ends up being really expensive. Although you can probably reduce the costs a bit if you get the non-branded OEM part or potentially the same part from another manufacturer (e.g. the toyota supra uses a lot of bmw parts so if the toyota part might be cheaper than the same bmw part).
That was my whole point actually, the wear and tear is really minimal if you get regular oil changes. Things don’t just break and need replacing. Tires, rotors, brakes, those wear out. The tires are not cheap, rotors and pads aren’t crazy expensive and super easy to DIY.
What other wear and tear things are expensive?
Owned a BMW. Had the audacity to use non-BMW windshield washer fluid. The fluid sensor broke; because in a BMW it’s a fancy sensor that is only compatible with specific washing fluids. Sums up my experience with that car. It was nice to sit in, though.
After 22 years, my z4 has needed batteries and a starter.
Recently, there was a problem with the engine misfiring but it was $200.
LA, California
If you had bought a 7 or 5 Series at that time, you would not have had that experience. The 2001 7 Series had something like a 25% roadside breakdown rate.
25% every journey, or 25% over the lifetime of the car? Neither seems really believable but I don't understand how else you would measure this.
25% of cars. It was... not good.
So like... One in four cars would break down at the side of the road before it was otherwise EOL? One roadside breakdown every 800,000 miles or so? That really doesn't sound bad.
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Mostly just tires and minor maintenance. You're unlikely to need pad and rotor replacements unless you're driving as if you were on a racetrack every single day.
With daily EV driving you have the opposite problem - regen means you rarely, if ever, actually activate the brakes, so you get rust on them that you need to clean out.
It's still good to know that SOTA is further, and we can expect the more advanced designs to seep into more affordable segments.
BMW also produces Mini EVs, which start at £26,840
The cheapest Minis are made by GWM in China, and are using different motors and batteries.
However, comparing prices between cars nowadays is a complicated matter. BMW's iX1 and iX2 (they use the BMW EESM motors) theoretically cost about €55k, but they have been very recently available to lease for about €250 euro per month - so pretty much for the same price as the cheapest electric Renault if leased.
They share the same OEMs, and both are following the same ex-China automotive strategy.
Renault has also been thumbing China recently for undermining EU manufacturing as well [0] while China has returned to using Wolf Warrior diplomacy against Europe [1][2][3][4] using the same rhetoric that the Trump admin uses.
Of course, under the Xi admin China's foreign policy has always viewed the EU as inferior and a has-been [5] and has become an active participant in the Ukraine War [6][7].
Europe might not be able to trust the US, but it can't trust China either.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/renault-ceo-asks-eu-enco...
[1] - https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1361926.shtml
[2] - https://www.chinausfocus.com/finance-economy/dear-brussels-d...
[3] - https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202605/1362161.shtml
[4] - http://news.china.com.cn/2026-06/10/content_118541873.shtml
[5] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht...
[6] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russians-...
[7] - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/12/8039041/
only replying to the first link: isn't sourcing (buying or manufacturing locally) parts for Chinese cars made in Europe a good thing?
It is, but the PRC has been pushing back against sourcing from within Europe and only intends to use CDKs to assemble EVs. This is what the EU is pushing back against.
What EU states are now lobbying for is if BYD wants to sell an EV in the EU, it should include European originated parts. Just assembling a knockdown kit in Hungary whose parts were all manufactured in China is not "Made in Europe". If BYD or MG wants to sell a BYD or MG car in the EU, they should source the battery pack and powertrain from the EU.
Alternatively, the PRC can drop similar origination requirements from it's domestic market.
The reality is the PRC won't back down, so they will be tariffed by the EU, especially as the EU has lost patience with the PRC due to their active involvement in the Russia-Ukraine War [0], attempting to use diplomatic immunity to kidnap a French national [1], and attempting to embargo the EU's rare earth imports [2].
Additionally, it's easier for the EU to push back against China versus the US while also winning brownie points in the US.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russians-...
[1] - https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2024/07/02/deux-espio...
[2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-...
> Alternatively, the PRC can drop similar origination requirements from it's domestic market.
Can you share any details on this? Is something I've rarely seen discussed
> following the same ex-China automotive strategy
Is that why Renault EVs (R5, Twingo) are wholesale developed in China? Doesn't seem very ex-to me, more an in- type of strategy.
Why do you think the R5 was developed in China? Renault have been quite open about all the improvements they had to make to their processes, development centres and factories in France to make it. The Twingo was partially developed in China.
The EV batteries are sourced from Ampere and LG (in the EU) and the EESM from Valeo (in the EU).
Sharing platforms isn't something EU manufacturers are opposed to, but they do not want to be dependent on Chinese supply chains. That is the crux of ExChina, especially as the majority of an EV's value is derived from the battery and powertrain.
same order of magnitude :)
Which is quite the contrast to Mercedes new axial flux electric motor, which goes all in on rare earths- the design relies on the highest end high-grade permanent magnets.
Still, presumably Mercedes ambitions are for few motors than BMW or Renault.
Vastly different target market and/or features there. Mercedes are chasing maximum power density, minimum weight for high performance deployments, with seemingly little concern for cost or supply chain.
Renault is going after the consumer market with these motors, where minimising cost and maximising availability is more important than pushing past 95% efficiency or cramming a 700kW power output in a motor that is small and light enough to fit inside of a wheel hub.