The Economist is very much part of the establishment, whoever they are owned by. It is not surprising that they would want to play down any idea that the UK is less “democratic”. Furthermore, The Economist is one of the main mouthpieces of British capitalism, and so their definition of “democracy” is going to be very much of the liberal, capital-friendly kind, which is not completely incompatible with some authoritarian tendencies.
But the parent point was that no British media could be critical of government policy. Picking an example that isn’t, on one area, doesn’t prove their point.
[Edit] Granted though, the bbc isn’t merciless - that’s more the newspapers
Are the sibling comments astroturfed? This seems like such a bizarre thing to be talking about in relation to an Anthropic model release. As someone from the UK, I don't feel like I'm living in an authoritarian country. And yet most of the sibling comments are insinuating that I am. Weird.
> If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.
Uh... you are making his point. People from way more authoritarian countries don't necessarily feel like they are living in an authoritarian country. Therefore whether or not it "feels" like you are living in one isn't a reliable measure.
Trivially true I suppose, but it doesn’t make my point irrelevant - do you think Britain is equivalent to China and Russia? If everyone does but us then yes my goodness they’ve done a good job controlling us, but that seems far fetched.
The UK has very recently[1] announced a new push for client side scanning by messaging providers which is both very likely to be unpopular and known here, so once one person cracks the joke, others are going to want to comment. Don’t think that requires astroturfing.
HN is extremely pro free speech and the UK has recently decided to engage in censorship. Part of the issue users here reckon with is the recency. Unlike many authoritarian countries that seem hopeless with regards to free speech the UKs censorship is a recent development that many think can still be undone through political action. Similar to takes on why Israel is being protested when places like sudan arent.
Hey man, fellow Brit here. The American view on certain aspects of British life is insane. I've lived in not one but two places that have been called Muslim no-go zones in American media. My main memory of living near the east London mosque is an elderly Muslim trying to offer my his seat on the bus (I was on crutches) while two drunk gammons looked on gormlessly.
On the other hand, it is quite alarming that I can no longer say I support all non violent protests against the genocide in Palestine because that would include the group Palestine Action. It's amazing that supporting them openly is essentially equivalent to supporting Al Qaeda.
Sounds like the people around you don't care about the things that is actually eroding free speech.
Read about Dr Aladwan - an NHS doctor - who has barred from practising because of her comments on Israel. Read the common articles about her (BBC etc), and then go actually read her tweets. Common BS of conflating criticism of a government (Israel) with antisemitism.
Also, this article may be of interest:
China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll
My dear friend, please start with the online safety act, and continue with the recent developments regarding age verification and/or device scanning on all operating systems to check for nudity. No, nobody is talking about it here, but we should be.
The UK has a censorship bureau, ofcom. The example that comes up most here is 4chan, which the UK is currently trying to ban because they refuse to do age verification. If you read the threads here you will see other stories. One that sticks out to me is someone who was talking about their struggles running a forum about depression. They live in canada and were contacted by ofcom demanding the forum add age verification, cant totally remember the reason but it was something about kids being able to access talk about depression. Ofcom said that if he doesnt add age verification to his forum he will be arrested if he ever enters the UK. He even blocked uk IPs but they said that wasnt enough. We can quibble about whether age verification is a form of censorship, I think it clearly is, if only because it is a large regulatory hurdle that stops people from hosting forums because its too much regulatory work.
The UK also has a very broad definition of hate speech that many users here detest.
They’re talking about British hate speech laws. They think other countries have universal free speech and they absolutely do not, but for some reason they think Britain goes too far. Although “think” is probably too generous - they’re parroting talking points.
Why would you be? The fully corrupt, fear-mongering party that idolized Orban's Hungary and tried to copy his tactics, including taking over the courts (resulting in EU sanctions) and turning the state media into a propaganda machine, only recently lost the elections. And not a full term later, the polls favour them again, combined with a meteoric rise of even worse anti-EU fascists who they'll happily join forces with to take over in 2027.
I get you might not hear this stuff if you're not in EU or Poland itself, but seriously, just check the latest polling and history of PiS rule. It would take over a decade to event attempt to undo the damage that has been done to the rule of law in Poland, and the currently ruling "anti-PiS" coalition only had a short while (in which they failed to do anything) before getting neutered by the populace electing their own Trump-like buffoon that proceeds to veto everything the ruling coalition tries to pass. For added damage, the 3rd and 4th leading candidates (with combined 20% support) were the aforementioned fascists. Here's one [0]. Consider the wiki article a fraction of the cesspool he regularly produces.
It shows the irony of trolling the UK's "authoritarianism" in a thread on a release of a model by a US company, given the US is arguably _more_ authoritarian. (Poland is more of a fun tidbit, as they are indeed tied in the Economist's index.)
> In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet.
Do you? The closest thing I can think about is how someone was jailed for encouraging arson attacks on asylum hotels. I'd be extremely surprised if the US had zero cases of somebody receiving a police visit after threatening to kill the President or bomb a school or something...
(FWIW I do think the UK needs stronger free speech protections, but saying that you'll be immediately jailed for writing unfriendly tweets is a huge stretch)
Yes. And also you are threatened with prison for holding in front of a court a placard with [pretty much] a quote from the plaque displayed on the most important criminal court.
You're threatened with arrest for holding empty placard.
You're jailed for years for holding a zoom meeting planning a peaceful climate-emergency related demonstration. At the same time judge threatens the defendants with contempt of court sanctions if they dare to explain to juries why they planned to protest.
You're jailed for opposing a genocide.
You're jailed and called a terrorist for painting planes helping to bomb civilians - the exact same thing the sitting PM was defending a person in court some years ago (as a human rights lawyer, the irony).
You're arrested for wearing a T-shirt "I support plasticine action" (not a typo, "Plasticine").
>the quality of discussion on HN has gone to shit, i miss when model released used to have actual informed takes from people that used them or substantive discussion about the system card
> published by the British media company the Economist Group
Haha, it's literally the first sentence of the Wikipedia page. That's fucking funny. Try again.
Why is it funny? You think British media can’t be critical of the British government? They are famously merciless.
Also, the economist is majority foreign owned, so try doing more than 1 second of research, or be more civil, or ideally both.
The Economist is very much part of the establishment, whoever they are owned by. It is not surprising that they would want to play down any idea that the UK is less “democratic”. Furthermore, The Economist is one of the main mouthpieces of British capitalism, and so their definition of “democracy” is going to be very much of the liberal, capital-friendly kind, which is not completely incompatible with some authoritarian tendencies.
To be fair, BBC has hardly been that critical in the British governments' complicity in the genocide in Gaza.
And their headlines covering Israeli atrocities (not even their own governments), is super passive.
But the parent point was that no British media could be critical of government policy. Picking an example that isn’t, on one area, doesn’t prove their point.
[Edit] Granted though, the bbc isn’t merciless - that’s more the newspapers
Are the sibling comments astroturfed? This seems like such a bizarre thing to be talking about in relation to an Anthropic model release. As someone from the UK, I don't feel like I'm living in an authoritarian country. And yet most of the sibling comments are insinuating that I am. Weird.
I'm sure there are people in Russia, China, ... who don't feel like they're living in an authoritarian country.
If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.
> If you think Britain and Russia or China are equivalent in terms of government overreach, you need to find new sources of information.
Uh... you are making his point. People from way more authoritarian countries don't necessarily feel like they are living in an authoritarian country. Therefore whether or not it "feels" like you are living in one isn't a reliable measure.
Trivially true I suppose, but it doesn’t make my point irrelevant - do you think Britain is equivalent to China and Russia? If everyone does but us then yes my goodness they’ve done a good job controlling us, but that seems far fetched.
It's true (from a perception perspective):
China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll
https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perc...
Maybe the rankings arent accurate.
It's a poll.
The UK has very recently[1] announced a new push for client side scanning by messaging providers which is both very likely to be unpopular and known here, so once one person cracks the joke, others are going to want to comment. Don’t think that requires astroturfing.
[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jun/08/starmer-t...
It's just people who use "For You" algorithm on X.
HN is extremely pro free speech and the UK has recently decided to engage in censorship. Part of the issue users here reckon with is the recency. Unlike many authoritarian countries that seem hopeless with regards to free speech the UKs censorship is a recent development that many think can still be undone through political action. Similar to takes on why Israel is being protested when places like sudan arent.
Indeed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce83pj1ggmeo
In the uk you can very much be imprisoned for "hate speech", which in my view is a form of censorship.
This has passed me by - can you give me some specific examples?
I personally don't feel limited in my speech, but I'm willing to accept that I may be wrong
Nobody I know in real life is talking about censorship or free speech in the UK
"Nobody I know is talking about censorship" is a certified HN banger.
I don't know, I would expect it to come up in the pub or something if people were concerned about it, it's not like we have the thought police here
Hey man, fellow Brit here. The American view on certain aspects of British life is insane. I've lived in not one but two places that have been called Muslim no-go zones in American media. My main memory of living near the east London mosque is an elderly Muslim trying to offer my his seat on the bus (I was on crutches) while two drunk gammons looked on gormlessly.
On the other hand, it is quite alarming that I can no longer say I support all non violent protests against the genocide in Palestine because that would include the group Palestine Action. It's amazing that supporting them openly is essentially equivalent to supporting Al Qaeda.
Sounds like the people around you don't care about the things that is actually eroding free speech.
Read about Dr Aladwan - an NHS doctor - who has barred from practising because of her comments on Israel. Read the common articles about her (BBC etc), and then go actually read her tweets. Common BS of conflating criticism of a government (Israel) with antisemitism.
Also, this article may be of interest:
China soars in democratic perception ranking as US, Israel plummet: Poll
https://thecradle.co/articles/china-soars-in-democratic-perc...
> Nobody I know in real life is talking about censorship or free speech in the UK
Yeah because free speech has never really been a core value in the UK
My dear friend, please start with the online safety act, and continue with the recent developments regarding age verification and/or device scanning on all operating systems to check for nudity. No, nobody is talking about it here, but we should be.
The UK has a censorship bureau, ofcom. The example that comes up most here is 4chan, which the UK is currently trying to ban because they refuse to do age verification. If you read the threads here you will see other stories. One that sticks out to me is someone who was talking about their struggles running a forum about depression. They live in canada and were contacted by ofcom demanding the forum add age verification, cant totally remember the reason but it was something about kids being able to access talk about depression. Ofcom said that if he doesnt add age verification to his forum he will be arrested if he ever enters the UK. He even blocked uk IPs but they said that wasnt enough. We can quibble about whether age verification is a form of censorship, I think it clearly is, if only because it is a large regulatory hurdle that stops people from hosting forums because its too much regulatory work.
The UK also has a very broad definition of hate speech that many users here detest.
Makes sense, thank you. I am opposed to the age verification laws that we have introduced recently.
They’re talking about British hate speech laws. They think other countries have universal free speech and they absolutely do not, but for some reason they think Britain goes too far. Although “think” is probably too generous - they’re parroting talking points.
The downvoters are welcome to offer actual counterarguments.
>HN is extremely pro free speech
It is most definitively not, at least in the 10ish year's I've lurked.
It is "pro free speech" in the sense Elon Musk is a "free speech absolutist": in pretty much the diametrically opposed meaning of the phrase.
> HN is extremely pro free speech
They like to think so. But if someone makes a comment that goes against the groupthink here, they will get downvoted, flagged, and shadow-banned.
Neither do people living in China
Really shocked Poland is that low, especially just next to USA.
Why would you be? The fully corrupt, fear-mongering party that idolized Orban's Hungary and tried to copy his tactics, including taking over the courts (resulting in EU sanctions) and turning the state media into a propaganda machine, only recently lost the elections. And not a full term later, the polls favour them again, combined with a meteoric rise of even worse anti-EU fascists who they'll happily join forces with to take over in 2027.
I get you might not hear this stuff if you're not in EU or Poland itself, but seriously, just check the latest polling and history of PiS rule. It would take over a decade to event attempt to undo the damage that has been done to the rule of law in Poland, and the currently ruling "anti-PiS" coalition only had a short while (in which they failed to do anything) before getting neutered by the populace electing their own Trump-like buffoon that proceeds to veto everything the ruling coalition tries to pass. For added damage, the 3rd and 4th leading candidates (with combined 20% support) were the aforementioned fascists. Here's one [0]. Consider the wiki article a fraction of the cesspool he regularly produces.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Braun
> The Democracy Index published by the British media company
We decided that we aren't one of those authoritarian countries.
Ah, yes, the Economist, a famously government-controlled media outlet.
I have absolutely no clue what the US nor Poland's rank has to do with anything.
It shows the irony of trolling the UK's "authoritarianism" in a thread on a release of a model by a US company, given the US is arguably _more_ authoritarian. (Poland is more of a fun tidbit, as they are indeed tied in the Economist's index.)
[flagged]
> In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet.
Do you? The closest thing I can think about is how someone was jailed for encouraging arson attacks on asylum hotels. I'd be extremely surprised if the US had zero cases of somebody receiving a police visit after threatening to kill the President or bomb a school or something...
(FWIW I do think the UK needs stronger free speech protections, but saying that you'll be immediately jailed for writing unfriendly tweets is a huge stretch)
Yes. And also you are threatened with prison for holding in front of a court a placard with [pretty much] a quote from the plaque displayed on the most important criminal court.
You're threatened with arrest for holding empty placard.
You're jailed for years for holding a zoom meeting planning a peaceful climate-emergency related demonstration. At the same time judge threatens the defendants with contempt of court sanctions if they dare to explain to juries why they planned to protest.
You're jailed for opposing a genocide.
You're jailed and called a terrorist for painting planes helping to bomb civilians - the exact same thing the sitting PM was defending a person in court some years ago (as a human rights lawyer, the irony).
You're arrested for wearing a T-shirt "I support plasticine action" (not a typo, "Plasticine").
We could go for hours.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off...
Are they really making 12,000 arrests a year over tweets and posts?
>the quality of discussion on HN has gone to shit, i miss when model released used to have actual informed takes from people that used them or substantive discussion about the system card
Your comment earlier.
Edit: also, not much change in the last 10 years in prison population. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04...
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/select-communications-off...
12k people a year thrown in prison for spicy tweets
So roughly 0.017% of the population.
"Spicy tweets" including:
sending false communications
sending threatening communications
sending or showing flashing images electronically to people with epilepsy intending to cause them harm (‘epilepsy trolling’)
encouraging or assisting serious self-harm
sending a photograph or film of a person’s genitals (‘cyberflashing’)
sharing or threatening to share intimate photographs or film
Or a lot more commonly - critique of immigration policy
You are obviously invested in this narrative driven by Musk but you need to back it up properly.
Why did you choose to lie about this today? I'm genuinely interesting – this is trivially obviously not true, so what motivated this?
That is not a true statement.
Here's a good break down and explanation of what that number actually means - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB3WVygAM8I
That link says “12k arrests”, not thrown to prison! It’s also not clear how reliable that data is
In the UK you get thrown in prison for making a slightly unfriendly tweet. Freedom of speech simply does not exist.
"These days if you say you're English you'll be arrested and you'll be thrown in jail."
It's just not true. Where are you getting this nonsense from?