Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.
Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.
I believe the "advanced" LKAS on Rivian only works on highways and relies on an "up to date" geofencing database, so that's the first-order technical reason. And I'm sure they don't exactly prioritize fixing or altering that behavior for the other reason.
This is a safety issue. I don’t think there is a “fix” for offline lane assistance that they are sitting on do avoid people from disabling telemetry
The gen 1 system uses cameras primarily. It’s not awesome lidar or AI. It needs up to date road information.
I’ve been driving down I-5, a major interstate and had it turn off on me, presumably because I hit a dead spot, as conditions were fine and I5 is one of the most popular routes there is.
I’m fine with all of this. I prefer that it hand back control to me rather than make me another statistic like Tesla’s system.
I just can't imagine relying on something like that for my safety. I have worked on GPS and IoT solutions in related spaces and the comms networks aren't reliable, and actual control of a consumer vehicle is about the last thing I would ever want relying on it.
I think if I might be critical, the idea that the car graciously hands over control to you at a moment you are capable of catching might be a bit of a blind spot. The car could lose one of the signals it needs at an inopportune time and you would need a split second and correct emergency reaction to not spear off the road or collide with something. The physics of cars at highway speeds is awe inspiring, problems happen really, really fast.
Sure; I think that's a reasonable take too. I have no idea what their TTL requirements are or how frequently they update the ADAS database; if they're on the order of real-time, this seems like a complete technical constraint, if they're on a longer time horizon they might be able to offer manual offline databases.
I'm very curious at what level the restrictions operate. With every other manufacturer I've looked at, they're extremely coarse-grained; it's more like "is there a known long-time-horizon hazard in this area that is known to impair the system" than a "we mapped every lane and you need a database." I wonder if your I5 issue was a weeks or months-old construction area, for example. I haven't looked at Rivian much, though, and it could be totally different or extremely fine grained, there's no reason to suggest otherwise either.
Can LIDAR see lane markings? I would have thought that was computer vision only.
how would that even work? even if you could generate accurate maps of lane markings, non-differential gps in not accurate enough
I think it's a coarse-grained "this highway has been deemed non-anomalous enough to allow the vision systems to engage," not a fine-grained "we mapped every lane marking."
I understand how it could disable some features. Hyundai has a GPS-assisted database of highways that are approved for enhanced driver assist (HDA2).
I assume by lane keeping assistance they mean the more basic camera based system to warn and potentially correct drivers if they drift over a line without indicating. It makes sense it could also be geofenced to limit it to highways.
I think this is exactly how it works (also offline in my Hyundai).
Lane keeping is often hard to disable and you have to do it each and every drive, so getting that off permanently and putting the car offline then that is an unexpected bonus. Probably the same also applies for the speed limit beeper that partially relies on GPS maps. Taping over the front camera also works.
On an enthusiast forum someone made a little circuit board that plugs into the control panel of the steering wheel. When you get in the car, you press one button, and that simulates the button press sequence required to turn off the lane keep assist, speed warning and multiple other systems.
Toyota advanced LKA (called Traffic Jam Assist) requires mapping subscription to be active as well
> Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance
Good. Lane Keeping Assist should be illegal.
So you disable both internet and the most annoying feature after touchscreens and start stop. Double win.
>disables lane keeping assistance
That is a desirable outcome.
I have driven about half a dozen vehicles with this feature, and it has been annoying 100% of the time, and never helpful at all. In the company van I drive (Citroën Berlingo) I have to disable it every time I start the car. The lane keeping gets confused all the time by snow or dirt or when merging onto the motorway, or fucking background radiation - I dunno. It always shocks me when it pulls on the steering wheel. This crap should be forbidden. In the same car I also have to disable the start-stop system so as not to destroy the engine. Aside from that it's a nice enough van for a diesel, but I've been ruined by electrics.
In my own car (Nissan Leaf 2021), it stays disabled. But then it shows me a lawyer screen on every start asking me to consent to handing over my first born son etc.
Imagine if proper EV's had been invented in 2005 - we would have had some awesome cars.
I don't know if it is because I'm neurodivergent, but most driving aids are incredibly distracting for me. I'm terrified of anything interfering with my steering like lane keeping. Flashed up speed warnings, and especially anything that beeps are super distracting. I drive with GPS on silent, now the car wants to override that.
Result, I drive a 2012 car.
My car from ~2020 has an intermediate "low" setting which I've been pretty happy with. The default "high" is a frustrating distraction though, jarringly affecting the wheel even when I'm very-well-aware of what's going on and have my own plans for the curves ahead.
Well, I love my lane assistance (Hyundai). If I didn't want it though, it's a very easy (and "sticky") toggle in settings.
Why? What do you love about it?
2005 was peak car interior
If you need lane keeping assistance you should just accept you need internet connectivity at all times like wtf cars didn’t always have that just drive straight.
LOL, you guys really read quite funny if that's the way you decide to comment on that.
Lane keeping assistance is optional on any vehicle. I don't believe there is any current production in which you can't opt out of lane keeping assistance?
Isn't it mandatory in the EU if the car supports it? Mandatory as in it's opt-out and will re-enable itself every time you turn on the car.
> will re-enable itself every time you turn on the car
I think that's only for the speed limit alarms. Wouldn't have that if people would stick to limits, I guess...
Not that I’ve seen. Every time I rent a recent model year, they have the lane keeping assist feature but it only works when you enable adaptive cruise control.
But maybe that’s what you meant?
You have a lot of trouble driving your car inside the lanes?
LOL, is this really your only thought?
Did you also disable ABS and refuse to use smart cruise control?
Why do you think lane keeping assist is useful?
Why do you think smart cruise control is useful?
I can't tell if ABS is useful or not. My car has it but I've never used it.
They need to keep lane availability up to date - lanes get closed for repair or realignment sometimes and it’d suck to rear-end an 18 ton grader because you don’t have current DOT info…
Anybody relying on lane-keeping assistance to prevent from slamming into the back of big yellow construction vehicle is doing it wrong, and we should be thankful they didn't hit something else with more victims.
The problem is that the lane keeping assist freaks out quite often and will steer you into obstacles that are in your lane.
I will say though the the new version of the Kia Niro EVs we have is a lot better in that regard - it just kind of gently nudges the steering, it feels more like the car is tramlining a bit. The older versions we had at work would actively try to steer you into other vehicles.
My assumption would be that lane keeping would be about staying in the lines ahead of you, not knowing which lanes are available on the route. Available lanes can change in real-time due to all kinds of reasons.
I think the term has been used for various capabilities over the years.
My friend's 10-year-old Toyota will chirp annoyingly if you drift over a lane line but that's all it does. It doesn't have any ability to steer the car back into the center of the lane. Is that "lane keeping"?
No, that's "lane departure warning"
Mine has either off, warn, or warn+adjust (but adjustment is very gentle, more of a nudge).
I can imagine it can save a life someone dozing off and drifting.
Also great if you are distracted, perhaps by kids in the back or something happening on the side of the road. Mine has chirped at me a few times. It's basically the electronic version of rumble strips.
It does say lane "keeping" not lane "changing". I assume it's the safety feature to remain in the lane.
I've seen lanes on highways that abruptly end with zero markings or signs - the concrete barriers just force you into the other lane just as you realize what's going on.
I would have doubted this had I not experienced it myself on my way home from a movie last night. Not even a construction sign! Let alone something reflective.
I didn't know that. I assumed it was sensor-based. How up-to-date can that really be? That sounds pretty crazy.