I suppose it depends on where you are looking for dynamicity. In some ways, lua is much more laissez faire of course.
But in Python, everything is an object, which is why, as I said, it spends much of its time looking things up. And things like bindings for closures are late, so that's more lookups as well.
In lua, many things aren't objects, and, for example, you can add two numbers without looking anything up. Another issue, of course, when you do that, is that you could conceivably overflow an integer, but that can't happen in Python either.
The Python interpreter has some fast paths for specific object types, but it is really limited in the optimizations it can do, because there simply aren't any unboxed types.
Nop, Python is not full object. Not even Ruby is fully object, try `if.class` for example. Self, Smalltalk, Lisp, and Io are fully object in that sense. But none as far as I know can handle something like `(.class`.
Aren't you mixing up syntax and the concepts it expresses? Why would (.class have to be a thing? Is space dot class a thing? I don't think this makes sense and it doesn't inform about languages "being fully object". Such syntax is merely for producing an AST and that alone doesn't mean "object" or "not object". It could just as well be all kinds of different things, or functions, or stack pushes and pops or something.
It doesn’t have to in the absolute. It just that if some speech seel that a programing language is completely object oriented, it’s fun to check to which point it actually is.
There are many valid reasons why one would not to do that, of course. But if it’s marketed as if implicitly one could expect it should, it seems fair to debunk the myth that it’s actually a fully object language.
>Is space dot class a thing?
Could be, though generally spaces are not considered like terms – but Whitespace shows it’s just about what is conventionally retained.
So, supposing that ` .class` and `.class` express the same value, the most obvious convention that would come to my mind then would be to consider that it’s applied to the implicit narrower "context object" in the current lexical scope.
Raku evaluate `.WHAT` and `(.WHAT)` both as `(Any)` for giving a concrete example of related choice of convention.
>Such syntax is merely for producing an AST and that alone doesn't mean "object" or "not object".
Precisely, if the language is not providing complete reflection facility on every meaningful terms, including syncategorematic ones, then it’s not fully object. Once again, being almost fully object is fine, but it’s not being fully object.
I think the idea is that SmallTalk replaced conditional syntax with methods on booleans. You could call `ifTrue:` on a boolean, passing it a code block; a true boolean would execute the block, and a false boolean would not. (There was also an `ifFalse:` method.)
This feels more like a party trick than anything. But it does represent a deep commitment to founding the whole language on object orientation, even when it seems silly to folks like me.
You obviously realize that different languages have different syntactic requirements, yet you are willing to cut one language a break when its minimal syntactical elements aren't objects, and refuse to cut other languages a break because they have a few more syntactical elements?
I bet LuaJIT crushes Zef! Or rather, I would hope that it does, given how much more engineering went into it
There are many runtimes that I could have included but didn’t.
Also, it’s quite impressive how much faster PUC Lua is than QuickJS and Python
Because QuickJS is really slow. Don't be fooled by the name. It's almost an order of magnitude slower than node/v8.
(I suppose the quick in QuickJS means "quick for a pure interpreter without JIT compilation or something...)
based on this data, it’s probably slower than JSC’s or V8’s interpreter
So like that’s wild
> it’s quite impressive how much faster PUC Lua is than QuickJS and Python
Python's execution time is mostly spent looking up stuff. I don't think lua is quite as dynamic.
Lua is way more dynamic
I suppose it depends on where you are looking for dynamicity. In some ways, lua is much more laissez faire of course.
But in Python, everything is an object, which is why, as I said, it spends much of its time looking things up. And things like bindings for closures are late, so that's more lookups as well.
In lua, many things aren't objects, and, for example, you can add two numbers without looking anything up. Another issue, of course, when you do that, is that you could conceivably overflow an integer, but that can't happen in Python either.
The Python interpreter has some fast paths for specific object types, but it is really limited in the optimizations it can do, because there simply aren't any unboxed types.
I think you’re describing deficiencies in the Python impl not anything about the language
Nop, Python is not full object. Not even Ruby is fully object, try `if.class` for example. Self, Smalltalk, Lisp, and Io are fully object in that sense. But none as far as I know can handle something like `(.class`.
Aren't you mixing up syntax and the concepts it expresses? Why would (.class have to be a thing? Is space dot class a thing? I don't think this makes sense and it doesn't inform about languages "being fully object". Such syntax is merely for producing an AST and that alone doesn't mean "object" or "not object". It could just as well be all kinds of different things, or functions, or stack pushes and pops or something.
>Why would (.class have to be a thing?
It doesn’t have to in the absolute. It just that if some speech seel that a programing language is completely object oriented, it’s fun to check to which point it actually is.
There are many valid reasons why one would not to do that, of course. But if it’s marketed as if implicitly one could expect it should, it seems fair to debunk the myth that it’s actually a fully object language.
>Is space dot class a thing?
Could be, though generally spaces are not considered like terms – but Whitespace shows it’s just about what is conventionally retained.
So, supposing that ` .class` and `.class` express the same value, the most obvious convention that would come to my mind then would be to consider that it’s applied to the implicit narrower "context object" in the current lexical scope.
Raku evaluate `.WHAT` and `(.WHAT)` both as `(Any)` for giving a concrete example of related choice of convention.
>Such syntax is merely for producing an AST and that alone doesn't mean "object" or "not object".
Precisely, if the language is not providing complete reflection facility on every meaningful terms, including syncategorematic ones, then it’s not fully object. Once again, being almost fully object is fine, but it’s not being fully object.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncategorematic_term
I think the idea is that SmallTalk replaced conditional syntax with methods on booleans. You could call `ifTrue:` on a boolean, passing it a code block; a true boolean would execute the block, and a false boolean would not. (There was also an `ifFalse:` method.)
This feels more like a party trick than anything. But it does represent a deep commitment to founding the whole language on object orientation, even when it seems silly to folks like me.
You obviously realize that different languages have different syntactic requirements, yet you are willing to cut one language a break when its minimal syntactical elements aren't objects, and refuse to cut other languages a break because they have a few more syntactical elements?