Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"?
[Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."
Unfortunately language tends to get diluted. Nowadays in pop culture it means publishing anyone's personal information, usually against their wishes.
This does seem close to the original intent of "doxxing", where information ("dox") is publicized that connects a real-world identity to a previously anonymous online persona. These are hackers in the classic sense who were going out of their way to stay anonymous.
The dilution of the word doxxing has been interesting, though. Some of the recent "doxxing" controversies have been about figures who weren't all that anonymous to begin with. The pop culture meaning has been extended to cover any mention of someone's real identity at all, even if it wasn't a secret.
Beyond diluting it also seems that people are increasingly under the impression that internet rules are also the same in real life.
I’ve been seeing it come up in discussions about court cases where people are under the belief that requiring online personalities real names in the court documents is somehow illegal because it’s doxxing.
It's just the usual millennials and zoomers finding out that their fantasies aren't actually how the world works
Most of us grew up on the Internet, and consequently our world view is incredibly screwed and not particularly based on facts
I grew up on the internet but early enough that the phrase “the internet isn’t real life” was bandied about, which I think made it easier to understand the different set of rules existing.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
Yeah, I’m not okay with this. Doxxing is a term with an extremely negative connotation and is often done to people who, bluntly, weren’t hiding or doing anything wrong. The correct term for the same act here is either “accuse” or “unmask”.
It implies to me they _shouldn't_ be releasing his name. In this case it sounds like they very much should be naming him.
So basically it's like Terrorism or Genociding, where if it's against the team you are rooting for, it is that, and if it's not against your in-group it's just War?
I'd rather "doxxing" just mean "de-anonymizing" because that's 1) how I already read it, 2) removes the whole "who is the more moral side in this dispute therefore has the right to make the accusation" problem
So it is doxxing if the doxxed committed wrongdoings from the perspective of... the doxxer? Ideals, morality, alignment, goals and purpose are and have always been a static constant for all humankind. There is no pineapple pizza, it is a lie, for I don't like it, and therefore nobody else ever did either.
doxxing is a term that is commonly reserved for private information that the doxxed individual has an expectation to be treated as such, that is to say, it's not in the public interest.
Someone who breaks the law and is actively searched for obviously has no expectation of privacy, or do you think the people visiting Epstein's island were doxxed?
You have understand that we're dealing with Morals™, if you're an enemy of the States, anything is on the table. Even some of the things the States is actively calling other countries out for, see Iran for example and how silent the EU, ICC, and NATO is when its "Daddy", as Rutte put it, commits atrocities.
If someone wasn't previously known, only an alias or alter-ego, but you then link those together with a real-life identity, that's very much the definition of "doxxing", at least the original definition, maybe it's different today? Positive or negative doesn't really matter, just like "shooting" or "jumping" in itself isn't positive or negative, it's just a verb.
No, if I kidnap someone it's kidnapping. If the police based on probable cause receive and execute a warrant for someone's arrest, it's an arrest. This is how the state monopoly on violence works.
And if the state kills somebody without the cover of a legal pretext, it's called an "extrajudicial killing" rather than a murder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrajudicial_killing#United_S...
More to the point, if the police or whoever shoot someone in self defence, that someone is "killed". If I, or the police shoot someone for fun, it's "murder". In both cases the victim is "killed"
True, self defense isn't called murder. But if the government drone strikes an American citizen without a trial or anything, that's "extrajudicial killing", not murder.
And if the police actually catches the accused and puts them in jail, is that kidnapping? Most verbs have far more semantics than just the most basic before/after state diff.
Well, no, kidnapping is unlawful abduction. But abduction is always abduction, regardless of who does it, police can abduct people too, but when criminals do so, we call it kidnapping, since it's illegal. Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I think it failed to land properly.
"Doxing" has negative connotations.
Its almost always associated with a private person (ie not police or anyone of a judicial system) releasing personal information with malicious intent.
As the person above you said, semantics are important. This is a judicial system specifically searching for a person they believe to have caused severe criminal harm.
While I don’t think this case is accurately described as Doxxing I also reject the definition that the state can’t commit Doxxing. The reason this situation doesn’t count is because of due process, not simply state action. The state is not infallible, regardless of what immunity may try to establish.
The point is the outcome and magnitude of "kidnapping" and "abduction" are the same, so it's not fair people are treated differently if the terms are virtually synonymous. The impact is the same. If it was a truly just system, the people in power would subscribe to the same rules they codify into law.
I have, admittedly, only been on the Internet for thirty-five years or so, but I seem to recall that a long time ago reading about people "doxxing" guys who posted pictures of them torturing cats and dogs.
"Doxxing" certainly doesn't carry a negative connotation in that usage. Unless you live in a culture where torturing domesticated animals is a good thing.
ANd I recall that, before that, hackers would doxx other hackers in the 90s in order to get them arrested. Again, that seems like the exact same usage as here: tying a pseudonym to an IRL for purposes of law enforcement.
There is still an inherent negative aspect to the "Don't Fuck with Cats" doxxing. Vigilantes publicly revealing the identity of (suspected) perpetrators can enable further vigilante action, and this can cause harm to innocent people if the identification was incorrect, or unwittingly impede law enforcement. And that's before considering whether vigilantism is inherently good or bad.
See the canonical example of this going wrong: the Reddit 'investigation' of the Boston Bomber, where someone was misidentified, doxxed, and their family was harassed.
Of course, law enforcement is capable of making the same mistakes. But ideally they have better safeguards, and victims of their negligence have much better recourse.
> that seems like the exact same usage as here: tying a pseudonym to an IRL for purposes of law enforcement.
I disagree. Tying a pseudonym to an IRL persona for purposes of law enforcement is a part of an official investigation.
Doxxing is specifically non-government unmasking and dissemination of that tie for extrajudicial purposes, almost always for harassment. There is a world of difference between them and we should not fudge them together with terminology. My 2c.
What if the government reveals the name of a victim of sexual assault? Is that doxxing? What about a political rival in connection with a made up crime? What about a true but benign crime such as accessing reproductive healthcare?
Doxxing a hostile act.
If it's negative depends on if you think they deserve the hostility.
Most people who dox for a reason they think is justified will nonetheless reject the label of doxing for what they did. They'll say "I didn't dox him, I just discovered publicly available but obscure information about him and posted it."
If you want an alias that's fine, just don't use it to do crimes.
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also it seems the US had already identified him 3 years prior?
I do not understand this logic either. They take GDPR way too serious haha. JK obv.
Wait. Is that what's happening here? Are they expecting the international criminal to be given a right to privacy until he's convicted?
> Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"?
No, if they just put UNKN on the most wanted list, then it wouldn't be doxing. But then they also tie UNKN together with "Daniil Maksimovich Shchukin", and that's the doxxing, regardless or not if it's on a most wanted list.
I think this is not how wanted lists work, here in Germany at least. Do they work this way where you are living? The goal of wanted lists in Germany is to find the person the police is searching for to put them in front of a court if the prosecution can make a case.
Perhaps this goes back to leftist terrorism in Germany in the 1970s, they would not use the code names of terrorists on the wanted lists but their real names to find them, because this is what they wanted - but I don't know.
What do you mean "this is not how wanted lists work"? The goal everywhere is to find the people on the wanted list, that's why they're called "wanted" in the first place. Is there something in my comment indicating I don't believe wanted lists are for finding people?
"No, if they just put UNKN on the most wanted list, then it wouldn't be doxing."
I misread that as it either would be the thing to do or an alternative option and you were against putting names on a wanted list.
No, I was just trying to clarify that the "doxxing" part is not the "add $name to $list" but "tie $alias to $real-name".
Isn't this just the good old "aka"?
Like in " William H. Bonney aka The Kid"? Doxing in the 19th century by the government it seems.
Back in the day, being doxed meant having your real name, address, phone number, email, etc. posted online for anyone to do what they would.
This seems to be just issuing an arrest warrant.
Uh, you think they should just put "UNKN" on the wanted list instead of the person they believe is UNKN? That's not very helpful...