just found this curated list of self-hosted discord alternatives.

https://github.com/Vigno04/discord-selfhosted-alternatives

unfortunately though i think self-hosting is one of the problems. one of the features of discord is how easy it is to create your own server.

from that list i am checking out commet now, which seems to promise a better experience on top of matrix. that would at least solve the self-hosting issue, as i'll be able to use it on any existing matrix server. matrix has the technical features needed to work like discord, but not the interface.