I think you’re misreading this. OP has an email account. Someone else signed up for some website that doesn’t verify that you own the address before allowing you to log in and use the service. If the site did verify it, the user wouldn’t have been able to log in because OP would have been getting the verification emails, and not the user.
Later, after OP told the user and they failed to change their address, OP logged into the site and changed their password, putting an end to the spam they were receiving from the user’s actions.
I don’t have an ethical qualm with this. He didn’t want to sign up for the service. Someone else signed his email address up for it. Legally, I can’t imagine that being prosecutable.
One thing I've found, occasionally the hard way, is that helpful bystanders are always offering advice based on "ethical", "intuitive", "logical" and "common sense", usually without any aspect of "legal".
I got divorced a decade ago, and every well-wishing person in my life was strongly urging me to do things which were shockingly counter-productive / dangerous / wrong, based on their confident understanding (assumption, really) of the law which was completely and dangerously inaccurate.
Hacker News audience is global. People start accounts for various purposes. Yet people still freely share the notion that logging in to some unknown website run by an unknown company from a hard to spell country and then touching things is universally safe.
I miss the old "IANAL" tag which at least provided basic warning and self-awareness :-).
While true, I think that's implicit in all online conversations. I'm certain my thinking is 100% wrong in some jurisdictions elsewhere. Anything I say is wrong somewhere.
"It's OK: you can curse on the Internet." "Not when you're typing from Iran!" "Well, OK, if you're in Iran, don't take this American's advice for dealing with a government."
Part of our obligation as a reader is to consider what others are saying in the context of our own circumstances and experiences before trying to apply it. If you don't, and things end badly, that's on you.
But I stand on my words: I think it's ethically OK. You may not. That's alright. We're not required to have the same ethics or morals. And I don't think that's prosecutable. That's my opinion, based on my circumstances, not a statement of fact that applies in all jurisdictions around the world.
Above all else, I got tired of giving disclaimers about every single thing I say lest someone jump in with a "gotcha! scenario" I hadn't considered because it's not relevant to the context of the discussion.
IANYL, though! Offering legal advice with the disclaimer “I am not a lawyer” could be prosecuted as practicing law if a reasonably party could still infer a potential lawyer-client relationship from your message and/or intent. Instead, “I am not your lawyer” explicitly denies the lawyer-client relationship, which closes the door on both being accused of practicing law illegally and on being found as party to a lawyer-client relationship whether or not you have the appropriate certifications.
> closes the door on [...] being accused of practicing law illegally
Does it? So I can say, "I'm not your lawyer, but I'm happy to go ahead and give you specific legal advice on your case." and I can't be accused of illegally practicing law? I was under the impression that this could still get you into hot water. But not being your lawyer, due to the fact that I am not a lawyer at all, I don't know if it is true or not.
As with all things, who are you going to get in trouble with? And what's so magical about legal practice as opposed to, say, giving shitty medical advice or telling someone how to build porch? Asking genuinely. No one falls all over themselves to say "I am not a doctor, but...", even though their next words could kill someone. The implication is that they don't have formal training but they saw something on Facebook that you should try. What happens next is on you, not on them.
> No on falls all over themselves to say “I am not a doctor, but”
This is precisely why I’m pointing this out: IANAL is a very curious case of people self-labeling their statements as “not trustworthy for the topic”. I can think of perhaps no other cases where it is so popular to claim to not be a professional in the relevant field, which suggests that IANAL is a ‘badge of honor’ rather than a proper legal disclaimer. Certainly few (if any) claim IANAD before writing about their experiences with medical issues, body things, or nutritional supplements here, even though those topics are (as you correctly indicate) potentially lethal.
Thus, IANYL: if your goal is to ensure that the recipient of your advice / opinion / whatever does not have grounds to claim that you provided legal advice, and therefore are their lawyer, then you can either do so weakly with TINLA (“this is not legal advice”), which still leaves the door open for awkward claims by some desperate grifter-rando to reach a bench, or you can do so strongly with IANYL (“I am not your lawyer”), which closes that vulnerability in full.
Not once in years of using IANYL have I seen anyone else properly protect themselves from this vulnerability; meanwhile, “IANAL but” remains in use as a badge of honor. So, yeah, I don’t think anyone considers the particular avenue of vulnerability a serious threat, and yeah, the general context of IANAL here is prideful rather than protective. But after twenty years of dealing with a stalker who was adept at internet and tried to fuck with my job at one point, I do now tend to value closing off legal vulnerabilities with certainty, and as a bonus it doesn’t imply insult to the professions of law.
I think you’re misreading this. OP has an email account. Someone else signed up for some website that doesn’t verify that you own the address before allowing you to log in and use the service. If the site did verify it, the user wouldn’t have been able to log in because OP would have been getting the verification emails, and not the user.
Later, after OP told the user and they failed to change their address, OP logged into the site and changed their password, putting an end to the spam they were receiving from the user’s actions.
I don’t have an ethical qualm with this. He didn’t want to sign up for the service. Someone else signed his email address up for it. Legally, I can’t imagine that being prosecutable.
One thing I've found, occasionally the hard way, is that helpful bystanders are always offering advice based on "ethical", "intuitive", "logical" and "common sense", usually without any aspect of "legal".
I got divorced a decade ago, and every well-wishing person in my life was strongly urging me to do things which were shockingly counter-productive / dangerous / wrong, based on their confident understanding (assumption, really) of the law which was completely and dangerously inaccurate.
Hacker News audience is global. People start accounts for various purposes. Yet people still freely share the notion that logging in to some unknown website run by an unknown company from a hard to spell country and then touching things is universally safe.
I miss the old "IANAL" tag which at least provided basic warning and self-awareness :-).
While true, I think that's implicit in all online conversations. I'm certain my thinking is 100% wrong in some jurisdictions elsewhere. Anything I say is wrong somewhere.
"It's OK: you can curse on the Internet." "Not when you're typing from Iran!" "Well, OK, if you're in Iran, don't take this American's advice for dealing with a government."
Part of our obligation as a reader is to consider what others are saying in the context of our own circumstances and experiences before trying to apply it. If you don't, and things end badly, that's on you.
But I stand on my words: I think it's ethically OK. You may not. That's alright. We're not required to have the same ethics or morals. And I don't think that's prosecutable. That's my opinion, based on my circumstances, not a statement of fact that applies in all jurisdictions around the world.
Above all else, I got tired of giving disclaimers about every single thing I say lest someone jump in with a "gotcha! scenario" I hadn't considered because it's not relevant to the context of the discussion.
IANYL, though! Offering legal advice with the disclaimer “I am not a lawyer” could be prosecuted as practicing law if a reasonably party could still infer a potential lawyer-client relationship from your message and/or intent. Instead, “I am not your lawyer” explicitly denies the lawyer-client relationship, which closes the door on both being accused of practicing law illegally and on being found as party to a lawyer-client relationship whether or not you have the appropriate certifications.
> closes the door on [...] being accused of practicing law illegally
Does it? So I can say, "I'm not your lawyer, but I'm happy to go ahead and give you specific legal advice on your case." and I can't be accused of illegally practicing law? I was under the impression that this could still get you into hot water. But not being your lawyer, due to the fact that I am not a lawyer at all, I don't know if it is true or not.
IANAL, so take this with a grain of salt, but:
As with all things, who are you going to get in trouble with? And what's so magical about legal practice as opposed to, say, giving shitty medical advice or telling someone how to build porch? Asking genuinely. No one falls all over themselves to say "I am not a doctor, but...", even though their next words could kill someone. The implication is that they don't have formal training but they saw something on Facebook that you should try. What happens next is on you, not on them.
> No on falls all over themselves to say “I am not a doctor, but”
This is precisely why I’m pointing this out: IANAL is a very curious case of people self-labeling their statements as “not trustworthy for the topic”. I can think of perhaps no other cases where it is so popular to claim to not be a professional in the relevant field, which suggests that IANAL is a ‘badge of honor’ rather than a proper legal disclaimer. Certainly few (if any) claim IANAD before writing about their experiences with medical issues, body things, or nutritional supplements here, even though those topics are (as you correctly indicate) potentially lethal.
Thus, IANYL: if your goal is to ensure that the recipient of your advice / opinion / whatever does not have grounds to claim that you provided legal advice, and therefore are their lawyer, then you can either do so weakly with TINLA (“this is not legal advice”), which still leaves the door open for awkward claims by some desperate grifter-rando to reach a bench, or you can do so strongly with IANYL (“I am not your lawyer”), which closes that vulnerability in full.
Not once in years of using IANYL have I seen anyone else properly protect themselves from this vulnerability; meanwhile, “IANAL but” remains in use as a badge of honor. So, yeah, I don’t think anyone considers the particular avenue of vulnerability a serious threat, and yeah, the general context of IANAL here is prideful rather than protective. But after twenty years of dealing with a stalker who was adept at internet and tried to fuck with my job at one point, I do now tend to value closing off legal vulnerabilities with certainty, and as a bonus it doesn’t imply insult to the professions of law.
IANYL, YMMV :)