>The only people that have trouble with this development are the gatekeepers who think that code should be sacred and revered by itself. That is a perversion of computing, and we got the wrong group of people there.
I'm not sure who the hell you're talking about, but I'd guess from your comment that you have a pretty high opinion of yourself.
> Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?
Vercel may be bad, but they have been a net positive to the web landscape, so many projects are alive because of them. And I truly respect the hard work the next devs put into their code and test suites. I'm surprised any self respecting dev even votes this up.
> Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?
Without spending the time on reading through all the details for the umpteenth “look what we built with AI!” article, I assume this is as valid as Anthropic’s claim about building a C++ compiler a few weeks ago where, when you looked under the hood, it was still relying on existing compilers.
Like OK, I really don’t believe the claims to begin with, but even if I do take them at face value, you just recreated something already existing and working for years?
Or just skip/migrate off of the Next.js and other JS SSR rats nets to Elixir and Phoenix LiveView - Claude and Codex are both very good with Elixir now: https://elixirisallyouneed.dev
I see this sort of maximalism a lot where people are just turned off js and say f it I'll use HTMX or LiveView or Alpine or whatever promises that you won't have to write js, and that's fine; as long as you're building generic dashboards and/or the same repetitive UI patterns. And even then you're basically writing JS just in a worse way.
I use Liveview and Elixir for 2-3 home-lab related frontend services; but when I have to do something moderately complicated I have to reach out for a darn js library and hooks and phx-commands. Try using native drag and drop or even client-side markdown rendering. This also leads to memory leaks when you can't properly detach libraries.
I just say think about your goals; these frameworks/platforms that promise to remove JS from your life or minimize it do so by sacrificing something. There's no silver bullet for building on the web.
But whenever I do talk to people who are debating amongst frameworks SvelteKit and SolidStart are the two I recommend, it's easy to host anywhere (unlike Next), you can turn off SSR, just ship static files with very minor changes (exporting a variable in Svelte for ex). They're really quick, get the job done, actively being worked on, loads of resources, discussions and thriving communities.
>Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?
The last time Cloudflare vibe-coded something, it was a glorified proof-of-concept with TODOs up the wazoo.
>The only people that have trouble with this development are the gatekeepers who think that code should be sacred and revered by itself. That is a perversion of computing, and we got the wrong group of people there.
I'm not sure who the hell you're talking about, but I'd guess from your comment that you have a pretty high opinion of yourself.
> Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?
looks like HN has finally defeated the cloudflare voting ring
> Code never was and never should have been the product in and of itself
Except that the code completely and precisely defines the actual product. Bad code => bad product.
> code should be sacred and revered by itself
As a production of the hand and mind, code should be revered - if only as the mark of the human or groups of humans that made it.
> the wrong group of people
The group of people who care deeply about the world around them.
> Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?
Vercel may be bad, but they have been a net positive to the web landscape, so many projects are alive because of them. And I truly respect the hard work the next devs put into their code and test suites. I'm surprised any self respecting dev even votes this up.
Because it hurts feelings?
If someone reproduced the Linux kernel would you feel the same way?
If it is a multi million dollar company? Yes absolutely.
Yeah if it is, then downvote.
> Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?
Without spending the time on reading through all the details for the umpteenth “look what we built with AI!” article, I assume this is as valid as Anthropic’s claim about building a C++ compiler a few weeks ago where, when you looked under the hood, it was still relying on existing compilers.
Like OK, I really don’t believe the claims to begin with, but even if I do take them at face value, you just recreated something already existing and working for years?
Or just skip/migrate off of the Next.js and other JS SSR rats nets to Elixir and Phoenix LiveView - Claude and Codex are both very good with Elixir now: https://elixirisallyouneed.dev
I see this sort of maximalism a lot where people are just turned off js and say f it I'll use HTMX or LiveView or Alpine or whatever promises that you won't have to write js, and that's fine; as long as you're building generic dashboards and/or the same repetitive UI patterns. And even then you're basically writing JS just in a worse way.
I use Liveview and Elixir for 2-3 home-lab related frontend services; but when I have to do something moderately complicated I have to reach out for a darn js library and hooks and phx-commands. Try using native drag and drop or even client-side markdown rendering. This also leads to memory leaks when you can't properly detach libraries.
I just say think about your goals; these frameworks/platforms that promise to remove JS from your life or minimize it do so by sacrificing something. There's no silver bullet for building on the web.
But whenever I do talk to people who are debating amongst frameworks SvelteKit and SolidStart are the two I recommend, it's easy to host anywhere (unlike Next), you can turn off SSR, just ship static files with very minor changes (exporting a variable in Svelte for ex). They're really quick, get the job done, actively being worked on, loads of resources, discussions and thriving communities.
It's not so much about the syntax, it's about the better runtime. But it is nice to have fewer moving parts and not have to touch JS as often.
https://x.com/mrpopov_com/status/2026948153107247426
see also: https://dashbit.co/blog/why-elixir-best-language-for-ai
last time I tried to use nextjs in a cloudflare worker there was a lot of issues
> I agree, and so do a lot of my peers that code has quickly become nothing more than a tool to accomplish a task.
Wait a minute, can we at least wait until this dethrones next.js before making suck claims?