> Never thought this would be something people actually take seriously.
You have to remember that the number of software developers saw a massive swell in the last 20 years, and many of these folks are Bootcamp-educated web/app dev types, not John Carmack. They typically started too late and for the wrong reasons to become very skilled in the craft by middle age, under pre-AI circumstances and statistically (of course there are many wonderful exceptions; one of my best developers is someone who worked in a retail store for 15 years before pivoting).
AI tools are now available to everyone, not just the developers who were already proficient at writing code. When you take in the excitement you always have to consider what it does for the average developer and also those below average: A chance to redefine yourself, be among the first doing a new thing, skip over many years of skill-building and, as many of them would put it, focus on results.
It's totally obvious why many leap at this, and it's even probably what they should do, individually. But it's a selfish concern, not a care for the practice as-is. It also results in a lot of performative blog posting. But if it was you, you might well do the same to get ahead in life. There's only to so many opportunities to get in on something on the ground floor.
I feel a lot of senior developers don't keep the demographics of our community of practice into account when they try to understand the reception of AI tools.
This is gold.
I have rarely had the words pulled out of my mouth.
The percentage of devs in my career that are from the same academic background, show similar interests, and approach the field in the same way, is probably less than %10, sadly.
Well, there are programmers like Karpathy in his original coinage of vibe coding
> There's a new kind of coding I call "vibe coding", where you fully give in to the vibes, embrace exponentials, and forget that the code even exists. It's possible because the LLMs (e.g. Cursor Composer w Sonnet) are getting too good. Also I just talk to Composer with SuperWhisper so I barely even touch the keyboard. I ask for the dumbest things like "decrease the padding on the sidebar by half" because I'm too lazy to find it. I "Accept All" always, I don't read the diffs anymore. When I get error messages I just copy paste them in with no comment, usually that fixes it. The code grows beyond my usual comprehension, I'd have to really read through it for a while. Sometimes the LLMs can't fix a bug so I just work around it or ask for random changes until it goes away. It's not too bad for throwaway weekend projects, but still quite amusing. I'm building a project or webapp, but it's not really coding - I just see stuff, say stuff, run stuff, and copy paste stuff, and it mostly works.
Notice "don't read the diffs anymore".
In fact, this is practically the anniversary of that tweet: https://x.com/karpathy/status/2019137879310836075?s=20
Ahh Bulverism, with a hint of ad-hominem and a dash no No True Scotsman. I think the most damning indictment here is the seeming inability to make actual arguments and not just cheap shots at people you've never even met.
Please tell me, "Were people excited about high-level languages just programmers who 'couldn't hack it' with assembly? Maybe you are one of those? Were GUI advocates just people who couldn't master the command line?"
Thanks for teaching me about Bulverism, I hadn't heard of that fallacy before. I can see how my comment displays those characteristics and will probably try to avoid that pattern more in the future.
Honestly, I still think there's truth to what I wrote, and I don't think your counter-examples prove it wrong per-se. The prompt I responded to ("why are people taking this seriously") also led fairly naturally down the road of examining the reasons. That was of course my choice to do, but it's also just what interested me in the moment.
I think he's a cook, watching people putting frozen "meals" in the microwave and telling himself: "hey! That's not cooking!".
And I totally agree with him. Throwing some kind of fallacy in the air for the show doesn't make your argument, or lack of, more convincing.
>I think he's a cook, watching people putting frozen "meals" in the microwave and telling himself: "hey! That's not cooking!".
It's the equivalent of saying anyone excited about being able to microwave Frozen meals is a hack who couldn't make it in the kitchen. I'm sorry, but if you don't see how ridiculous that assertion is then I don't know what to tell you.
>And I totally agree with him. Throwing some kind of fallacy in the air for the show doesn't make your argument, or lack of, more convincing.
A series of condescending statements meant to demean with no objective backing whatsoever is not an argument. What do you want me to say ? There's nothing worth addressing, other than pointing out how empty it is.
You think there aren't big shots, more accomplished than anyone in this conversation who are similarly enthusiastic?
You and OP have zero actual clue. At any advancement, regardless of how big or consequential, there are always people like that. It's very nice to feel smart and superior and degrade others, but people ought to be better than that.
So I'm sorry but I don't really care how superior a cook you think you are.
> You think there aren't big shots, more accomplished than anyone in this conversation who are similarly enthusiastic?
I think both things can be true simultaneously.
You're arguing against a straw man.