They could attempt it, but the Second Amendment is quite clear that a constitutional amendment would be necessary to ban firearms and ammunition.
They could attempt it, but the Second Amendment is quite clear that a constitutional amendment would be necessary to ban firearms and ammunition.
The solution that is difficult but clear: Repeal the 2nd. Get grass roots support for it. Propagandize the shit out of it, get the message out that anyone who opposes the government having the power to implement license requirements for firearms, and total bans on certain classes of weapon, is objectively in support of more gun violence.
In the meantime, go full lawfare on gun and ammo manufacturers, gun lobbyists, and pro-gun advocates. Sue, and keep suing. Go for ten-figure verdicts. Keep them so tied up in court that they can't operate effectively, and they can't get out of it without major egg on their face.
There would have to be a very long period of peace, first. Periods of government instability, as we have now, actually cause American citizens to want to reaffirm their rights, not relinquish them. And, the 2nd amendment represents something symbolically beyond its function: a unified collective will against tyranny, corruption, and evil.
> Get grass roots support for it.
This must be satire. This will never, ever happen in the US. Guns are a religion here.
What a dystopia. If anything the situation in Minnesota should teach liberal Americans that they all need to arm themselves massively.
Yes, and remind me what happened to the liberal American that armed himself in Minnesota?
He wasn't standing next to 25 other liberals who had armed themselves.
Ah, got it, 25 is the magic number that makes you bulletproof.
He attempted to be a hero by drawing on a federal officer.
> drawing on a federal officer
It is my understanding [0] that multiple videos show that Petti did not draw his gun.
Do you know of evidence to the contrary?
[0] https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/did-pretti-draw-wea...
There is video evidence and many eyewitnesses that he did no such thing. If you need to lie to justify fascism, maybe you shouldn't be supporting fascism.
He possessed a weapon on his person in a state where that in completely legal, in a country whose constitution explicitly says he's allowed to own that weapon. There was not a single reason for him to be executed by federal agents.
> He attempted to be a hero by drawing on a federal officer.
Absolutely vile smear against a hard working VA nurse and stand up citizen.
There were zero attempts made by Alex Pretti to draw a weapon. He was being a hero by helping 2 women move away from the masked officers forcefully pushing them.
Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.
"anyone who opposes the government must be stopped"
are you sure?
SCOTUS has ruled before that 2A does not afford freedom to own any kind of weapon. There are limits on explosives for example.
They tend to lean on whether it is reasonable that the Founders might have had access to such a weapon with their technology. Machine gun is just a rifle with automatic rechamber. Not an unreasonable upgrade for 1700s technology. Maybe, I dunno; political people don't have to actually care about the details.
There are limits. And if cases like this made it there they might rule that no Founder was smelting the materials. That they would have had to collaborate, in some "market dictates options" ruling to limit hermits going in a rampage. Also everyone a weapons assembly line in their home is anti-corporate capitalism.
"George Washington understood the value of civic life and sound economics! He would not have tolerated such insular selfishness! He did not make his own weapons! He engaged in trade!"
Not saying it's realistic but politics is not never controlled by people living in reality. Making shit up seems as reasonable as anything.
>SCOTUS has ruled before that 2A does not afford freedom to own any kind of weapon. There are limits on explosives for example.
This is largely machine guns and explosives. Pistols, rifles, etc are ordinary weapons in common use*
*NYC authorities may not agree
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The only weapon class I know of that's outright illegal to own is anti-aircraft missiles. That carries life imprisonment just for possession, with no violent intent. Because the government never wants to give up its air supremacy. This is why whenever you hear of feds concocting an international weapons conspiracy they always have to add anti-air bazookas to the charges because it's the only thing that actually can unequivocally be proven as illegal to own[0].
Basically everything else can be owned with an NFA tax stamp. Nuclear weapons my understanding is the difficulty is more with laws on handling the material than specifically owning one as a weapon, so I'm unsure those are even outright illegal either.
Explosives are actually one of the ones with looser restrictions. Even felons can own and re-instate their explosives rights, because bafflingly when congress de-funded the firearms rights restoration process for felons they forgot to do the one for explosives. Felons can also own and manufacture explosive black powder without scrutiny or paperwork, even ones intended to go in a black powder gun.
[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68365597
Here the law https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g it says "shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment not less than 25 years or to imprisonment for life." Even conspiring to acquire them is as illegal as possession!
Fully automatic assault rifles, anti-aircraft guns (that still operate), anti-aircraft missiles (that still operate), land mines over a certain size, or any Comp B. Those are on the naughty list.
There’s a whole community of folks building semi-automatic auto-return triggers that are “technically” semi automatic, but with just a gentle squeeze, fire off another. If you maintain that grip, the return mechanism engages, returning the trigger to firing position, where your pressure causes it to fire again… it’s called a Forced Reset Trigger.
Sawed off shotguns, sawed off barrels in general.
My point overall was government is fine with arbitrary exceptions that would get Stan's dad going all "Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was America."
Forearms yes, percussion caps no.
A large fraction of the harm from firearms comes from their ability to fire rapidly which didn’t exist when the constitution was written. As such it was making a very different balance of risk between the general public and individuals.
The Girardoni repeating air rifle predates the ratification of the constitution by ~11 years and was taken on the Lewis and Clark expedition ~13 years later. Really the whole discussion around 2A is usually nonsense because it ignores the context that the entire Bill of Rights had a completely different meaning prior to the 14th amendment leading to incorporation over the last century (and other expansions of federal power via commerce clause); that is, the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the states.
Very obviously individuals were expected to be part of the militia, which was the military at the time (c.f. the Militia Acts 2 years after ratification requiring individual gun ownership and very clearly laying out that all able-bodied white male citizens aged 18-45 were part of the militia), but also states could regulate weapons if they wanted.
> Girardoni repeating air rifle
Not a firearm.
I didn’t say we could ban compressed air powered guns, I specifically said percussion caps. The Girardoni was way less dangerous than a modern handgun.
The Girardoni is certainly and unusual example but is deadly. However more importantly it is far from the first repeating firearm. There is the Kalthoff and Cookson repeating rifles as the most prominent examples. And both Jefferson and Washington personally got offered to purchase repeating firearms per their own journals, im im sure they weren't the only founders to receive such offers for both personal and military usage.
Sure, but compressed air guns are deadly (you can find videos of people using them on deer on youtube, or if you want something less graphic, you can find ballistic gel test videos), and a repeating rifle did exist at the time and was used a couple years later by an official American expedition commissioned by Jefferson. So fast-firing weapons were not some alien technology. The wider context also makes it clear that 2A was supposed to give individuals the right to own whatever weapons the military uses because at the time, there was no standing military. Individuals were summoned and expected to bring their own weapons, hence the law requiring them to own them.
In the 230 intervening years, we've vastly increased the scope of the federal government and developed a formal military, so one might argue we ought to amend the constitution to change exactly what's allowed under 2A (e.g. it should be straightforward to have a nuclear weapons ban added with unanimous agreement), but as it stands, 2A (+14A) clearly gives individuals the right to own the arms necessary to run a functioning ("well-regulated") militia, which in 2026 means at least semi-automatic firearms.
> So fast-firing weapons were not some alien technology.
Thrown stones are a fast firing deadly weapon. They, compressed air guns, and ball musket etc aren’t used by modern military forces in combat because they are less dangerous.
A rule that allows compressed air weapons yet bans percussion caps is quite reasonable and could pass constitutional scrutiny.
It might be quite reasonable, but it would also quite clearly require an amendment to do in the US, which is what you originally replied to.
Grenades a clear requirement for a modern infantry are also banned, thus eliminating any argument that a modern standards of military efficiency apply.
Banding heavy machine guns yet another invention after the constitution was written didn’t, so there’s clear present this wouldn’t either.
Except "it was made after the constitution was written" is a standard you've made up -- there is existing case law from SCOTUS that 2A protects guns "in common use"
Actually things that are new after the constitution was written is regularly brought up before the court it’s a very common argument. The thing was written a long time ago, everyone involved in the process acknowledges that fact. The degree to which papers applies to electronic data should be familiar to you.
Supreme court rulings are arbitrary as they regularly reverse or update standards, sometimes multiple times.
Yes, if your argument is found to be right in the future, then it will be right. Currently it is not, and it is unlikely to be any different until the composition of the court changes. Until then, the only other path to change it is an amendment.
I agree it’s the composition of the Supreme Court that’s at issue not the constitution.
Saying what arguments are right doesn’t make sense in these contexts only what is the current precedent.
1. The second amendment wasn't written because the authors thought guns were inert. It was written precisely because they could impart deadly force.
2. As someone else pointed out, early repeating rifles did exist then.
3. If the meaning of the constitution is only to be evaluated against the technology available at the time -- what does that say about the validity of the 1st or 4th amendments with modern technology?
Air guns existed sure. There’s a reason those aren’t used by the military today, they just aren’t that dangerous.
They're deadly and rapid fire.
But again, in historical context, the point of the 2A was to permit people to own the most deadly weapons of war that existed at that time.
> They’re deadly and rapid fire
So are a pile of stones, it’s the degree of risk to the public that matters not some arbitrary classification.
Ignoring differences is degree here isn’t enough to win the argument.
That is an argument that people make today.
Where was that part of the decision making process in 1789?
Firearms (ops Arms) was used rather than weapons suggesting some level of consideration here. They had cannons and warships back then. That bit about a well regulated militia suggests limits on what exactly was permissible.
But obviously we don’t have direct knowledge of every conversation.
> Firearms was used rather than weapons
Where? The constitution says neither. It says "Arms"
Regardless, the constitution specifically makes reference to the private ownership of cannons and warships.
> To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque
Arms at the time meant man portable weapons as distinct from cannons or trebuchet etc.
Just posted about firearms so many times used the wrong word here.
Cannons were regularly privately owned at the time
The point about cannons and warships actually makes it very clear about what the authors' intent was re: balance of risk; at the time, private ownership of artillery was completely legal and unregulated. Private citizens owned warships with dozens of live cannons that could bombard coastal cities, and didn't even need to file paperwork to do so! A warship can cause quite a bit more mayhem than a glock.
Legal yes, protected by the constitution without constraint no.
Both the use of Arms being man portable weapons and militia makes a very clear distinction.
The balance of power being considered then was between the state and the people. Fear over a standing army was real.
Crime exited when the constitution was written, suggesting the framers were only concerned with interactions at the state level is to insult their intelligence. Not to mention specific text like people’s rights to a jury trial etc.
Principally concerned between the state and the people, not only. The context was the nature of England at the time. It was viewed as an oppressive force.
The right to a jury trial is another example of favoring the individual instead of say, the Star Chamber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber
I don’t think we even disagree per se, but it’s hard to argue the constitution wasn’t written primarily with the thought of what England and how it exercised authority in mind. Individual roadmen and ruffians, let’s say, existed but weren’t existential threats to shape the tone of the new nation’s foundation, were they?
Lawlessness is a complete breakdown of state power and just as threatening to a new country as foreign powers.
The degree of importance they place on individual factors here is obviously debatable, but they just had two governments fail. England and the articles of confederation didn’t work so there was a larger emphasis on practicality over idealism.