I'm in Oregon, and that's the case - about $30 extra. More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements – people who don't have current travel documents, people who've just moved into town, people who don't have current documentation of address (e.g. the homeless, people in the foster care system, etc.)
It's pragmatic to have: plenty of people don't or can't fly, and the cost of supporting this option is marginal.
> More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements
I have access but deliberately choose not to provide it. Growing up I was told something about voting with my feet. Not so sure it works very well in practice though.
Traffic signs have symbols and shapes. You are allowed to drive in the US with an international drivers license if you don’t speak English. Are they going to arrest someone who doesn’t speak English and got a license in another state?
Traffic signs are readable by almost anybody regardless of English language skills. A vision test is much more safety-valid than an English language test.
I disagree that traffic signs are readable regardless of language skills. Yes, it's just a matter of developing recognition for simple pictorial signs. You just have to learn it. If I put a French "No Vehicles" sign in Florida, nobody is going to have a clue what it means, even though there are no words on it, and that's dangerous.
Not recognizing or incorrectly interpreting "Crash I-9 N/B Exp Right 2 Lanes Closed Merge Left 2000 ft" is also dangerous, right?
That level of English would be considered below A1. Just being in the US for a few months would give you that level of English even without any other education. So you're conflating "can you read about 2 dozen English words" with passing an English exam - let's say B1.
California offers both. I renewed my license last year. I opted for a non Real ID version because I could renew online rather than spend hours at the DMV.
Some states, including mine, don't offer RealID at all, but instead an "enhanced driver license" that is accepted alongside RealID. I don't even have that, because I already have a passport card, so there's no reason to spend the extra money.
yes, if there's one thing the working poor are known for, it's successfully extracting money from their employers. if uber wants you to rideshare, they should buy you a car, right?
If the answer is more than "zero" then the fee is harmful. Since I've been in similar positions (specifically as a contractor, where I had to front-load expenses and submit for reimbursement), it seems pretty likely to me.
Yes so we are going to optimize an entire system for this mythical “working poor” business traveler?
Every contractor has to do that. That’s the price you pay for going into that business (reason #999 thet while I work in cloud consulting I work full time for consulting companies).
Even as a business traveler, I have to pay my own expenses and wait for reimbursement.
I wasn't aware anyone had made the argument that this was an attempt to optimize anything. It's pretty obvious nobody's optimized anything in the TSA, ever.
It’s pretty optimal if you have TSA PreCheck + digital ID.
I fly in and out of ATL - the busiest airport in the US and one of the busiest in the world - I walk up to the TSA line, look at the camera , scan my ticket.
Then I take my wallet and my phone out of my pocket and put in my book bag, let it go through the scanner I walk through the scanner and grab my bookbag
This is the same process we did flying back from Costa Rica and London last year with the addition of showing our passport.
Everyone acts like this process is so much different than any other country.
Except for not having my book bag on me, it’s the same process to get on the “Chunnel” from London to Paris
> RealID licenses cost extra where I live.
Where is that? I’m curious.
Around here, RealID is just what you’re issued when you renew various forms of ID. I don’t even recall an option to get a non-RealID version.
I'm in Oregon, and that's the case - about $30 extra. More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements – people who don't have current travel documents, people who've just moved into town, people who don't have current documentation of address (e.g. the homeless, people in the foster care system, etc.)
It's pragmatic to have: plenty of people don't or can't fly, and the cost of supporting this option is marginal.
> More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements
I have access but deliberately choose not to provide it. Growing up I was told something about voting with my feet. Not so sure it works very well in practice though.
Washington State. $7/yr more for a Real ID license - $42 more the 6 year license and $60 more for the 10.
https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-licens...
In CA it was cheaper and (far) easier to get a normal license and a passport.
for what its worth, my state made it unpleasant enough that it was easier to just got a non-real id and a renew the ol passport
Are you saying our state offers both RealID and none RealID driver’s licenses?
All states do (for now). Not everyone qualified to drive is capable of proving their identity to the level RealID requires.
As far as I know, Florida does not issue documents that are not REAL ID compliant.
And this is the same state that said they will have drivers license tests in English only
That would be sensible if the traffic signs were in English.
Traffic signs have symbols and shapes. You are allowed to drive in the US with an international drivers license if you don’t speak English. Are they going to arrest someone who doesn’t speak English and got a license in another state?
Can you read Chinese? Can you identify what this traffic sign means? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/CN...
What does a sign that says private road, residents and guests only.
How about Japan?
Traffic signs are readable by almost anybody regardless of English language skills. A vision test is much more safety-valid than an English language test.
I disagree that traffic signs are readable regardless of language skills. Yes, it's just a matter of developing recognition for simple pictorial signs. You just have to learn it. If I put a French "No Vehicles" sign in Florida, nobody is going to have a clue what it means, even though there are no words on it, and that's dangerous.
Not recognizing or incorrectly interpreting "Crash I-9 N/B Exp Right 2 Lanes Closed Merge Left 2000 ft" is also dangerous, right?
That level of English would be considered below A1. Just being in the US for a few months would give you that level of English even without any other education. So you're conflating "can you read about 2 dozen English words" with passing an English exam - let's say B1.
Well countries have been willing to do reciprocal agreements with the US and other countries since 1926.
https://internationaldrivingpermit.org/what-is-an-idp/
Only if being illiterate also forbade you from driving, which it does not. You don't need to read the law to follow the law.
Well, there's a written exam.
Which can be completed by someone reading it verbally and writing down their answers, pretty much the same thing as financial and legal documents can.
California offers both. I renewed my license last year. I opted for a non Real ID version because I could renew online rather than spend hours at the DMV.
Some states, including mine, don't offer RealID at all, but instead an "enhanced driver license" that is accepted alongside RealID. I don't even have that, because I already have a passport card, so there's no reason to spend the extra money.
I know for a fact Kentucky offers both.
I renewed mine in May and still have a non-Real ID license.
If your job wants you to fly, it should buy you an id that lets you fly. Have you never applied for a visa to travel on a business trip?
yes, if there's one thing the working poor are known for, it's successfully extracting money from their employers. if uber wants you to rideshare, they should buy you a car, right?
How many “working poor” have jobs that require business travel?
If the answer is more than "zero" then the fee is harmful. Since I've been in similar positions (specifically as a contractor, where I had to front-load expenses and submit for reimbursement), it seems pretty likely to me.
Yes so we are going to optimize an entire system for this mythical “working poor” business traveler?
Every contractor has to do that. That’s the price you pay for going into that business (reason #999 thet while I work in cloud consulting I work full time for consulting companies).
Even as a business traveler, I have to pay my own expenses and wait for reimbursement.
I wasn't aware anyone had made the argument that this was an attempt to optimize anything. It's pretty obvious nobody's optimized anything in the TSA, ever.
It’s pretty optimal if you have TSA PreCheck + digital ID.
I fly in and out of ATL - the busiest airport in the US and one of the busiest in the world - I walk up to the TSA line, look at the camera , scan my ticket.
Then I take my wallet and my phone out of my pocket and put in my book bag, let it go through the scanner I walk through the scanner and grab my bookbag
This is the same process we did flying back from Costa Rica and London last year with the addition of showing our passport.
Everyone acts like this process is so much different than any other country.
Except for not having my book bag on me, it’s the same process to get on the “Chunnel” from London to Paris