HDD have to be bought new, as well as anything mechanical (eg fans). But for motherboards, CPU, RAM and SSD, there is great value in buying used enterprise hardware on ebay. It is generally durable hardware that spent a quiet life in a temperature controlled datacentre, server motherboards from 5 years ago are absolute aircraft carriers in term of PCIe lanes and functionalities. Used enterprise SSDs are probably more durable than a new retail SSD, plus power loss protection and better performance.
The only downside is slightly higher power consumption. But just bought a 32 core 3rd gen Xeon CPU + motherboard, 128GB RAM, it idles at 75w without disks which isn't terrible. And you can build a more powerful NAS for a third of the price of a high end Synology. Unlikely that the additional 20-30w idle power consumption will cost you more than that.
I wouldn't say that being new is an absolute requirement. I recently upgraded my ZFS pool from SATA to SAS HDDs. Since SAS HDDs have much better firmware for early error detection and monitoring, I decided to buy 50% refurbished. Even if I lost half of them, I would still be safe. I also have offsite backups. This setup worked really well for me, and I feel completely confident that my data is safe while not wasting unnecessary resources. Whether to use new or used equipment therefore depends on the setup.
Agree, but that's taking a risk with your data (whereas if a MB fails, you likely just need to replace it but your data is fine), and HDD kind of have a finite number of hours in them. Where buying them used I think makes sense is for a backup server, that you leave off except the few hours in a week where you do an incremental backup. Then it doesn't really matter that the drives have already been running for 3 or 4 years.
With the redundancy in a raidz2 or mirror, the driver can and will fail. I count on this. But it can happen in a controlled manner.
So you buy used enterprise disks because their error detection is 'better'?
Do you have any source for this claim? Why would be the firmware so different? Software is cheap i don't think they would be that different.
I mean a used enterprise disk gets sold after it was running on heavy load for a long time. Any consumer hdd will have a lot less runtime than enterprise disks.
The protocol is better (SAS). Once I put them in, I immediately noticed transmission issues in a counter going up for several of my HDDs where the SATA showed no errors at all. It was a faulty backplane that introduced these transmission issues that went unnoticed by my SATA drives for several years.
Maybe 75 W without disk is not terrible but it's not good. My unoptimized ARM servers idle at about 3 or 4 W and add another 1 or 10 W when their SSDs or HDDs are switched on.
75 W probably need active cooling. 4 W do not.
Anyway you can probably do many more things with that 75 W server.
A raspberry pi will go even lower. But as you say, not really comparable in term of functionality. I am comparing this to high end consumer NAS, which will idle at 30-40w minimum.
75W idle is 650kWh a year, that's quite significant in the context of a home.
Well, a Synology NAS would probably consume like 30-40w, so we are talking about an excess of $70-100 a year where I live. Depends on one's budget of course, but not really a big deal for me. And certainly less than what I am saving on the upfront cost.
260 Euros in Germany. And this heat also has to be moved out
Well that’s on you for living in the failed state of Germany, where power is 3-4x as expensive as it is in sensible countries like the US.
It's frustrating when a comment is both needlessly belligerent flamebait AND wrong about electricity prices in the US. I guess that's what makes effective flamebait
German electricity prices are around €0.38/kwh based on my quick googling which is roughly $0.44/kwh. I pay $0.12-0.13/kwh in the US so I’m at least right factually up to rounding.
Wrong. I pay €0,23/kWh, so do your homework.
What exactly is failing in Germany, and why is it important in this context?
They have failed to have a sensible industrial and energy policy, leading to around net 0 GDP growth since 2019. I’m sure for the degrowth elites though this is not a failure it is working as intended.
Enterprise hardware is very seldom a good idea.
The hardware has different form factors (19"), two power supplies, very loud, very power hungry.
There are so many good combinations of old and still functional hardware for consumers.
My main pc 6 years ago had a powerful cpu and idle load of 15 watts due to the combination of mainboard and amount of components i had in it (one ram block instead of 2 or so).
And often enough, if you can buy enterpsire hardware, the hardware is so outdated that a current consumer system would beat it without looking at it.
If you then need to replace something, its hard to find or its differennt like the power supply.
The datahoarder community frequently utilizes used hard drives.
That's perfectly fine, if your NAS has redundancy and you can recover from 1 - 2 disk failures, and you're buying the drives from a reputable reseller.
I usually buy used hard drives, but prices are strange for all electronics right now. It's a bad time to buy anything computer-related, but especially used goods which aren't discounted as much as normal are priced higher due to massive inflation (to the point that refurbished drives I bought 5 years ago have a better dollar/GB ratio than refurbs I can buy today).