Everybody needs healthcare. It’s a clear win for society if private actors can’t make it more inefficient by parasitizing a profit. The answer is single payer on the dime of the rentier capitalists. That’s how you reinvest in your society, not crypto and secret police.
Everybody also needs food. Should the government also pay for everyone's food?
In the richest country that has ever existed? The one that sends 1/3 of food into the dump? (https://refed.org/downloads/refed-2025-us-food-waste-report....)
Yes, obviously yes. If someone can’t pay for food, we clearly have enough to go around.
Well now you're shifting the goal posts. There's an enormous difference between having the government buy food for a few poor people (which I support) versus being the single payer for food for everyone.
Not really.
There's agricultural subsidies that help farmers to nominally ensure that the US doesn't need to import foodstuffs. That practically guarantees that food is available, but it isn't "single payer" in terms of obtaining that food.
That "single payer" for obtaining food is food stamps. You have to be poor, to very poor, to qualify. But you get stamps, you bring to your grocery store, and you get free essentials, paying with food stamps. The market then redeems the food stamps to the government to get paid. And, guess who prices these essential products? Well let's just say that the government is generally rather stingy about it, but markets that sell these essential items are practically required to accept food stamps, even if only to keep products moving so they don't rot on the shelves.
Food stamps are also agricultural subsidies.
When I was on food stamps there was a long tail where I qualified for a few dollars worth. Always seemed odd.
My understating is the dynamic have changed over time. But for much of its history it was as much about “what are farmers having trouble selling” as it was about “who needs food.”
Universal income you say?
My country will pay for your food if you can't afford any, yep. I'm glad to pay taxes to cover it, because extreme poverty isn't great for a society.
Remember kids, social security keeps society secure against poor people with nothing left to lose!
Why not? Flour and rice and potatoes are cheap, why shouldn't a basic level of nutrition be available?
They do already. Heard of SNAP?
Buying food for your family is a quintessential market transaction that works great with the government at arm's length. Healthcare.. less so. I'd rather deal with the DMV than a private insurer.
We do. We subsidize agriculture, and virtually everybody gets at least a subsistence level of food. Beyond that level, it's easy to let people decide what they're willing to pay for, because it's based on what they want, and not what they need. Wants are easier for individuals to figure out than needs. Health care is a need.
Given that we're well into a post-scarcity society by now? That's the only sensible thing unless we're choosing gratuitous cruelty.
We are in no such thing.
The world as a whole is poor.
Because a small number are very rich.
How much would it cost? I could stomach a pretty big tax increase if it meant no children in my home country would ever go to sleep starving again. That seems like a social good to me.
Why not? What would you want for yourself or your children if you found yourselves destitute and without other people to fall back on? Would you be comfortable with them starving?
Let’s get back to the original point, which is that the motive for profit in healthcare is at odds with the stated goal that everyone should have healthcare by right. Trying to make it about something else is a distraction.
Guess why there are farm subsidies?
Farmers vote?
They also get the same dick sucking level of praise as firefighters even though they are selling a product to us
I guess it depends on our priorities as a society, doesn’t it?
You don't need single payer. There are plenty of examples of working health systems in developed countries that don't rely on single payer. You just need some regulations that ensure that the system works mainly for patients and not for shareholders.
The US has reached an almost comical level of insanity and blatant inefficiencies but somehow there is no political will to address anything. Even the current fight over the ACA subsidies is basically about throwing even more money into the fire without addressing any structural issues.