> To 95 percent of the people that eagerly inform me of their “autism” : you are belittling a debilitating condition that many people suffer from, and no, you are not autistic, you are inconsiderate and socially lazy.
> You may be inconsiderate and socially lazy because it’s difficult to not be, but you could put in the effort to not be if you wanted to.
You're describing masking, most autistic people learn to do this subconsciously as children because otherwise you'd be ostracized from your peer group. Because that means literal death in the pre-modern society, humans have a strong inate aversion to that.
This causes a lot of stress and often leads to a life time of anxiety and depression.
It's kinda disappointing to read someone advocating for this. I had been told my whole childhood life that I'm lazy. Once I became an adult and started treating my ADHD, I stopped being "lazy", I could finally do things that I wanted to do. It's wild how night and day it was. Now I'm the only person in my family who is always doing things, and I get to call everyone else lazy. But I don't, because I'm trying not to be an asshole.
You accuse and condemn people who don't conform to a rigid ruleset for interactions that don't make sense. But everyone else who rolled a 20 on the social lottery get a pass on treating people who don't like fuckwits? Make it make sense.
> Yes, some people have more emotional/social intelligence than others. That doesn’t make you autistic, it just means you are kinda socially stupid and too lazy to do anything about it. Join the club, me too.
Sorry you've been gaslit so completely. I hope eventually you figure out how to dig yourself out of that hole of ignorance. I suspect you've been called lazy because some things are hard for you. Hard things being hard doesn't make you lazy.
> In general, anyone that has to tell you they are autistic isn’t. Autism is a pathology.
Shallow, incorrect, and unhelpful. Many people have asthma, but run and win races. Their asthma might not be pathological, but to pretend like they don't have it, or shouldn't keep a rescue inhaler in case of emergency is kinda messed up.
People treating and taking care their health physical and mental, shouldn't have to perform their rock bottom for you, just for you to believe them. And it's fucked up that you're suggesting they should!
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the common use of “autism”?
I have two autistic brothers, and my whole extended family is “on the spectrum” in social terms, but it doesn’t reach the level of a pathological diagnosis for the rest of us.
It is my understanding that being autistic is when these traits reach a level where it causes significant obstacles or completely precludes normal behaviour and social interaction.
Otherwise , the same traits mean that I have to work harder to relate to people, and understand that many of my minor fixations are rational only to me.
It’s extra work that I don’t always do to relate to others in a way that is pleasing to them, and some people are offended if I don’t try.
That’s on me, it’s a choice I make. I know that it’s harder for me than for some people for whom social grace comes naturally, but there are many things that are easier for me than for most people, and I can do a lot of things easily that most people struggle with. I’m happy with the bargain.
By nature, I’m socially astigmatic, sometimes asocial, and not very sensitive. I can overcome these tendencies if I work at it. I don’t always choose to. That doesn’t make me autistic.
My contention is that while neurodivergence is absolutely real, “autism” is a medical diagnosis, not a personality trait. I find everyone jumping on the bandwagon of “autism” for their deviation from the social norm minimises the very real fact that actual autism is a horrific, life destroying condition for many people, and is a genuine disability and not a cute / annoying personality quirk.
It’s also not an excuse for social laziness. If you are going to be socially lazy, even if it’s because it’s taxing not to be, own your decision. Otherwise you’re just surrendering your will and pawning off the guilt to disabled people. Seems like a shitty thing to do.
> Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the common use of “autism”?
> I have two autistic brothers, and my whole extended family is “on the spectrum” in social terms, but it doesn’t reach the level of a pathological diagnosis for the rest of us.
Yes, the common social use, and it's currently accepted medical definition and description as well. You are said to have the condition if it interferes with your tasks of daily life. If your inability to read and interpret social cues has a negative impact. That's autism, austism spectrum disorder is used because previously Asperger's used to be a separate diagnosis, but it's the same condition with multiple levels of severity. Someone with mild asthma, is still an asthmatic, someone with mild austism is still autistic, something with a below the knee amputation is still an amputee. just because they can win a race carrying a rescue inhaler, use intentional and conscious deliberate logic bosed effort to read facial expressions and respond to social cues, or walk with prosthetic that appears normal. Doesn't change that doing so is uncommonly difficult, and worthy of consideration.
> It is my understanding that being autistic is when these traits reach a level where it causes significant obstacles or completely precludes normal behaviour and social interaction.
Mild impairment is still worthy of treatment and dignity. Severe impairment where even with treatment the symptoms are still noticeable and negatively impacts life, is when it becomes pathological.
I have a headache but it goes away and doesn't interfere with my life when I take Advil. Still a headache. I have a headache, and no matter what I do, no matter how many drugs I take, it's still unbearable and I can't function normally with my headache. Still a headache, but that one is pathological. They are both headaches.
> Otherwise , the same traits mean that I have to work harder to relate to people, and understand that many of my minor fixations are rational only to me.
I mean, yeah? You were born wearing an extra weight vest, and have to run a race that you didn't set the (societal) rules for. And you not only have decided to tolerate wearing the extra weight vest, you're willing to blame yourself for it. And you're advocating that everyone else born with the vest should just accept the same.
Someone who has never tried to run wearing a weight vest has no idea how much harder it is. So they wrongly assume it's exactly the same as wearing an extra shirt or something.
> It’s extra work that I don’t always do to relate to others in a way that is pleasing to them, and some people are offended if I don’t try.
> That’s on me, it’s a choice I make.
There's a reason the term is always "take offense". While they're similar, offence and insult are different where you don't have to choose to be insulted. You do have to choose to be offended. (A habitual choice is still a choice)
Why are you willing taking the blame for someone else choosing to become offended over some ritual that itself makes no sense? One they can never explain above, "that's just what everyone does"? Everyone used to shit in a pot Karen, but thankfully we have indoor plumbing now.
It's their fault if they're offended, it might be your fault if they're insulted. But only one of them is worth spending the extra time on preventing. You're wearing a weight vest, and getting yelled at for not sprinting over the finish line. And you're say/advocating, yes that's the way everyone's life should be.
I disagree, the people wearing a weight vest should be praised for crossing the finish line, because like I said, they didn't set the rules but are still gladly playing the game where they have a disadvantage, one where most people assume they don't.
> I know that it’s harder for me than for some people for whom social grace comes naturally, but there are many things that are easier for me than for most people, and I can do a lot of things easily that most people struggle with. I’m happy with the bargain.
I'm also ecstaticly happy about the bargain. But I don't blame people for being stupid. I'm patient with them when they stumble and trip on 'trivial' logical problems. Do you mock people, and accuse them of just not trying hard enough when they make a small logical mistake/error? If someone complains about a long day of exhausting mental effort, do you try to be sympathetic, and suggest relaxing with something fun? Or do you accuse them of just being lazy, they could do it without being tired if they want! And everyone knows, humans love feeling exhausted all the time, being exhausted all the time is totally not soul crushing! /s
> By nature, I’m socially astigmatic, sometimes asocial, and not very sensitive. I can overcome these tendencies if I work at it. I don’t always choose to. That doesn’t make me autistic.
um... the need to expend an above normal amount of effort in social interactions is kinda the definition of autism. There a meme I love.
Test: Do you have a problem wearing socks?
Autistic person: No, of course I don't have a problem wearing socks, for you see, I have invented this 27 step process that allows me to put them on and appear like I can enjoy wearing socks! Thus I don't have a problem wearing socks!
Autistic people see no problem with making that conclusion, but it's pretty obvious that they definitely have a problem with socks.
> My contention is that while neurodivergence is absolutely real, “autism” is a medical diagnosis, not a personality trait. I find everyone jumping on the bandwagon of “autism” for their deviation from the social norm minimises the very real fact that actual autism is a horrific, life destroying condition for many people, and is a genuine disability and not a cute / annoying personality quirk.
ok RFK Jr...
but counter point: just because a lot of people who have mild to very mild symptoms of autism, and have found value in the treatments and solutions for the symptoms, are now willing to talk about it, and them. And are willing to attempt to normalize and build acceptance and understanding around the difficulties. Does not mean that they are trying to minimize the difficulty of people with severe autism. Black and white thinking is a symptom of autism, but both things can be true. A reasonable person can say, mild austism is real and deserves extra support understanding and compassion, and severe autism can be a horrific condition. But they are plenty of people who wouldn't have a horrific experience, if the society they lived within was willing to help them a bit with the things that are hard, even if that bit is just a bit of patience and understanding. Your rigid black and white, horrific or not-autism definition is not just wrong, but worse for everyone.
It's possible to say, it's hard for me to run this race in this 10kg weight vest, I could use some help and some patience. While also saying, we should do more for the guy behind me because his weight vest is 89kg, and he can barely crawl but I'm not willing to abandon him!
> It’s also not an excuse for social laziness. If you are going to be socially lazy, even if it’s because it’s taxing not to be, own your decision. Otherwise you’re just surrendering your will and pawning off the guilt to disabled people. Seems like a shitty thing to do.
I don't really understand this, how does my unwillingness to constantly exhaust myself playing games that even the people who are good at the game admit has no real reason. Pass off the guilt to disabled people? And why should I feel guilty? That's stupid, I'm not going to feel guilty over forgetting rules that, make no sense, I never agreed to, and make my life harder.
I would feel guilty if I made a mistake, but it's not a mistake to expect and demand fair and equitable treatment. I will play the social games literally everyone admits are kinda stupid, exactly as many times as everyone else agrees to be patient and understanding when I forget they exist. But normally autistic people are the only people who have to all the extra work, neurotypical people never feel guilty when they choose to take offense over an unintentional misunderstanding they created. So I choose to follow their lead and feel guilty the exact same amount.
For the record I think guilt is stupid here, compassion, understanding and patience is what we all should be striving for.
> To 95 percent of the people that eagerly inform me of their “autism” : you are belittling a debilitating condition that many people suffer from, and no, you are not autistic, you are inconsiderate and socially lazy.
> You may be inconsiderate and socially lazy because it’s difficult to not be, but you could put in the effort to not be if you wanted to.
You're describing masking, most autistic people learn to do this subconsciously as children because otherwise you'd be ostracized from your peer group. Because that means literal death in the pre-modern society, humans have a strong inate aversion to that.
This causes a lot of stress and often leads to a life time of anxiety and depression.
It's kinda disappointing to read someone advocating for this. I had been told my whole childhood life that I'm lazy. Once I became an adult and started treating my ADHD, I stopped being "lazy", I could finally do things that I wanted to do. It's wild how night and day it was. Now I'm the only person in my family who is always doing things, and I get to call everyone else lazy. But I don't, because I'm trying not to be an asshole.
You accuse and condemn people who don't conform to a rigid ruleset for interactions that don't make sense. But everyone else who rolled a 20 on the social lottery get a pass on treating people who don't like fuckwits? Make it make sense.
> Yes, some people have more emotional/social intelligence than others. That doesn’t make you autistic, it just means you are kinda socially stupid and too lazy to do anything about it. Join the club, me too.
Sorry you've been gaslit so completely. I hope eventually you figure out how to dig yourself out of that hole of ignorance. I suspect you've been called lazy because some things are hard for you. Hard things being hard doesn't make you lazy.
> In general, anyone that has to tell you they are autistic isn’t. Autism is a pathology.
Shallow, incorrect, and unhelpful. Many people have asthma, but run and win races. Their asthma might not be pathological, but to pretend like they don't have it, or shouldn't keep a rescue inhaler in case of emergency is kinda messed up.
People treating and taking care their health physical and mental, shouldn't have to perform their rock bottom for you, just for you to believe them. And it's fucked up that you're suggesting they should!
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the common use of “autism”?
I have two autistic brothers, and my whole extended family is “on the spectrum” in social terms, but it doesn’t reach the level of a pathological diagnosis for the rest of us.
It is my understanding that being autistic is when these traits reach a level where it causes significant obstacles or completely precludes normal behaviour and social interaction.
Otherwise , the same traits mean that I have to work harder to relate to people, and understand that many of my minor fixations are rational only to me.
It’s extra work that I don’t always do to relate to others in a way that is pleasing to them, and some people are offended if I don’t try.
That’s on me, it’s a choice I make. I know that it’s harder for me than for some people for whom social grace comes naturally, but there are many things that are easier for me than for most people, and I can do a lot of things easily that most people struggle with. I’m happy with the bargain.
By nature, I’m socially astigmatic, sometimes asocial, and not very sensitive. I can overcome these tendencies if I work at it. I don’t always choose to. That doesn’t make me autistic.
My contention is that while neurodivergence is absolutely real, “autism” is a medical diagnosis, not a personality trait. I find everyone jumping on the bandwagon of “autism” for their deviation from the social norm minimises the very real fact that actual autism is a horrific, life destroying condition for many people, and is a genuine disability and not a cute / annoying personality quirk.
It’s also not an excuse for social laziness. If you are going to be socially lazy, even if it’s because it’s taxing not to be, own your decision. Otherwise you’re just surrendering your will and pawning off the guilt to disabled people. Seems like a shitty thing to do.
> Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the common use of “autism”?
> I have two autistic brothers, and my whole extended family is “on the spectrum” in social terms, but it doesn’t reach the level of a pathological diagnosis for the rest of us.
Yes, the common social use, and it's currently accepted medical definition and description as well. You are said to have the condition if it interferes with your tasks of daily life. If your inability to read and interpret social cues has a negative impact. That's autism, austism spectrum disorder is used because previously Asperger's used to be a separate diagnosis, but it's the same condition with multiple levels of severity. Someone with mild asthma, is still an asthmatic, someone with mild austism is still autistic, something with a below the knee amputation is still an amputee. just because they can win a race carrying a rescue inhaler, use intentional and conscious deliberate logic bosed effort to read facial expressions and respond to social cues, or walk with prosthetic that appears normal. Doesn't change that doing so is uncommonly difficult, and worthy of consideration.
> It is my understanding that being autistic is when these traits reach a level where it causes significant obstacles or completely precludes normal behaviour and social interaction.
Mild impairment is still worthy of treatment and dignity. Severe impairment where even with treatment the symptoms are still noticeable and negatively impacts life, is when it becomes pathological.
I have a headache but it goes away and doesn't interfere with my life when I take Advil. Still a headache. I have a headache, and no matter what I do, no matter how many drugs I take, it's still unbearable and I can't function normally with my headache. Still a headache, but that one is pathological. They are both headaches.
> Otherwise , the same traits mean that I have to work harder to relate to people, and understand that many of my minor fixations are rational only to me.
I mean, yeah? You were born wearing an extra weight vest, and have to run a race that you didn't set the (societal) rules for. And you not only have decided to tolerate wearing the extra weight vest, you're willing to blame yourself for it. And you're advocating that everyone else born with the vest should just accept the same.
Someone who has never tried to run wearing a weight vest has no idea how much harder it is. So they wrongly assume it's exactly the same as wearing an extra shirt or something.
> It’s extra work that I don’t always do to relate to others in a way that is pleasing to them, and some people are offended if I don’t try.
> That’s on me, it’s a choice I make.
There's a reason the term is always "take offense". While they're similar, offence and insult are different where you don't have to choose to be insulted. You do have to choose to be offended. (A habitual choice is still a choice)
Why are you willing taking the blame for someone else choosing to become offended over some ritual that itself makes no sense? One they can never explain above, "that's just what everyone does"? Everyone used to shit in a pot Karen, but thankfully we have indoor plumbing now.
It's their fault if they're offended, it might be your fault if they're insulted. But only one of them is worth spending the extra time on preventing. You're wearing a weight vest, and getting yelled at for not sprinting over the finish line. And you're say/advocating, yes that's the way everyone's life should be.
I disagree, the people wearing a weight vest should be praised for crossing the finish line, because like I said, they didn't set the rules but are still gladly playing the game where they have a disadvantage, one where most people assume they don't.
> I know that it’s harder for me than for some people for whom social grace comes naturally, but there are many things that are easier for me than for most people, and I can do a lot of things easily that most people struggle with. I’m happy with the bargain.
I'm also ecstaticly happy about the bargain. But I don't blame people for being stupid. I'm patient with them when they stumble and trip on 'trivial' logical problems. Do you mock people, and accuse them of just not trying hard enough when they make a small logical mistake/error? If someone complains about a long day of exhausting mental effort, do you try to be sympathetic, and suggest relaxing with something fun? Or do you accuse them of just being lazy, they could do it without being tired if they want! And everyone knows, humans love feeling exhausted all the time, being exhausted all the time is totally not soul crushing! /s
> By nature, I’m socially astigmatic, sometimes asocial, and not very sensitive. I can overcome these tendencies if I work at it. I don’t always choose to. That doesn’t make me autistic.
um... the need to expend an above normal amount of effort in social interactions is kinda the definition of autism. There a meme I love.
Test: Do you have a problem wearing socks?
Autistic person: No, of course I don't have a problem wearing socks, for you see, I have invented this 27 step process that allows me to put them on and appear like I can enjoy wearing socks! Thus I don't have a problem wearing socks!
Autistic people see no problem with making that conclusion, but it's pretty obvious that they definitely have a problem with socks.
> My contention is that while neurodivergence is absolutely real, “autism” is a medical diagnosis, not a personality trait. I find everyone jumping on the bandwagon of “autism” for their deviation from the social norm minimises the very real fact that actual autism is a horrific, life destroying condition for many people, and is a genuine disability and not a cute / annoying personality quirk.
ok RFK Jr...
but counter point: just because a lot of people who have mild to very mild symptoms of autism, and have found value in the treatments and solutions for the symptoms, are now willing to talk about it, and them. And are willing to attempt to normalize and build acceptance and understanding around the difficulties. Does not mean that they are trying to minimize the difficulty of people with severe autism. Black and white thinking is a symptom of autism, but both things can be true. A reasonable person can say, mild austism is real and deserves extra support understanding and compassion, and severe autism can be a horrific condition. But they are plenty of people who wouldn't have a horrific experience, if the society they lived within was willing to help them a bit with the things that are hard, even if that bit is just a bit of patience and understanding. Your rigid black and white, horrific or not-autism definition is not just wrong, but worse for everyone.
It's possible to say, it's hard for me to run this race in this 10kg weight vest, I could use some help and some patience. While also saying, we should do more for the guy behind me because his weight vest is 89kg, and he can barely crawl but I'm not willing to abandon him!
> It’s also not an excuse for social laziness. If you are going to be socially lazy, even if it’s because it’s taxing not to be, own your decision. Otherwise you’re just surrendering your will and pawning off the guilt to disabled people. Seems like a shitty thing to do.
I don't really understand this, how does my unwillingness to constantly exhaust myself playing games that even the people who are good at the game admit has no real reason. Pass off the guilt to disabled people? And why should I feel guilty? That's stupid, I'm not going to feel guilty over forgetting rules that, make no sense, I never agreed to, and make my life harder.
I would feel guilty if I made a mistake, but it's not a mistake to expect and demand fair and equitable treatment. I will play the social games literally everyone admits are kinda stupid, exactly as many times as everyone else agrees to be patient and understanding when I forget they exist. But normally autistic people are the only people who have to all the extra work, neurotypical people never feel guilty when they choose to take offense over an unintentional misunderstanding they created. So I choose to follow their lead and feel guilty the exact same amount.
For the record I think guilt is stupid here, compassion, understanding and patience is what we all should be striving for.