I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at, but if you’re referring to weight, diet is significantly more important than lifestyle.
In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet, if your goal is to not be overweight. Obviously that doesn’t apply to all health metrics.
> In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet,
Depends on the person. If someone is eating such a large caloric excess and consuming highly processed calorie dense foods, changing diet is the only way out. You’re not going to out-exercise a 1000 calorie excess every day.
The average person might only be eating 200-300 calories more than their grandparents did, though. That’s actually within the range where you could overcome it with daily activity.
Really though, this isn’t a situation where you should pick or choose. Most people should be improving their diets and getting a little more activity.
> You’re not going to out-exercise a 1000 calorie excess every day.
I spend 4 hours on my phone every day per recent record. If I spend 2 of those outdoor then I'll have that 1000 calories.
It's realistically a choice.
I know this because I used to average 1500 active calories and around 2 hour of zone 2 training before my baby was born. Now I'm more time squeezed but looking at what I'm doing every day it's still a discipline issue. Getting back there though, goal is cracking 150 miles of running this month.
Its not, your thinking is way to simplistic. Body is not a simple machine. Hormones have dominant role here. Produce more insulin for whatever reason, you can eat whatever and you will be fat. Produce less insulin, you can eat whatever and you will still be lean. Exercise more, have more appetite.
What is unrealistic is caloric deficit, that is unsustainable, not sure why people have such a hard time understanding that. It is never about deficit on the long run.
Okay, sure it's been studied for longer but until very recently it wasn't really in the debate—or rather, in the average Joe's mind. Go to a nutritionist and they will tell you to eat less than you consume despite it being much more complex.
So I maintain my point. In fact, most of HN, which I consider educated, probably doesn't know about that. I myself heard about it very recently.
You're right that it is fundamentally about caloric deficit and my argument is that you can exercise enough that you can eat essentially as much as you want without gaining any weight.
I'm on double serving most days for breakfast and dinner since I eat 2 meals a day - and insulin wise I think I'm just normal medically speaking.
Your contention regarding diet and out-exercising surplus is generally true but not universal. I am occasionally at one extreme, where for a week or so I'll be expending 7000kcal/day and it's physically impossible to replace that amount of calories even with eating the highest caloric density foods I can stomach.
You allegedly expending 49,000 calories in a week when the discussion is about average people is irrelevant. The post already says it depends on the person too. On the other hand, I am curious how you are possibly exercising that much.
This is why I qualified my experience with being 'occasional.' Basically I do long distance bike races where you're biking for like 18+ hours a day for 2-6 days depending on event. It's an insane thing to do and an insane comparison to make when talking about normal people's diets, but it does illustrate that there is a limit to 'you can't out-exercise the calories.'
But honestly these sentiments reflect my experience. When I bulk for muscle I will still get 5 miles of walking in daily on top of a cardio/strength workout and manage to still grow.
I've yet to hit a hiking season and gain weight tho, and those are the more interesting data points. Imagine eating 4k calories daily and still losing weight. 8 hours of trotting through mountain passes is a vibe
Going to the gym regularly is a strictly American thing. Americans are obsessed with gym culture in a way that other countries generally aren't.
Most exercise in Japan takes the form of constant walking. You can walk from most homes to stores and restaurants, from many homes to train stations, from many workplaces to train stations, etc. For many Americans, the most walking they do is the walk from the door to the car.
It's substantially easier to build up a lot of time exercising by just walking as part of the things you do in daily life; a dedicated workout is generally only about 45-90 minutes. And the people going to the gym in Japan are also participating in all that walking, generally.
With how car-centric North America is, there isn’t much to walk to for a lot of people. Things are just very far from each other. I’d walk places a whole lot more if I had things at a reasonable walking distance, I used to do it all the time when I didn’t have kids and lived closer to the city. Back then, I sold my car less than a month after moving there, and relied on car sharing services for the odd trip outside of town.
Nowadays, I’m in a medium-sized agricultural town in Canada, not far outside the larger metropolitan area where half the province lives. Realistically, at a walking distance, I have a convenience store, a drugstore, and a small co-op hardware store. The closest grocery store is at least a 30 minute walk. Both my sons’ school and daycare, the closest market or shops I’d go at, they are all 4+ away.
Americans , by the actual numbers of participation, don't actually go to the gym that much -- the ones that do are loud and have a lot of overlap with social media participation.
is radio taiso still a thing? Employee mandated exercise would go over like a lead balloon here.
We have employee mandated exercise in the construction industry in the US, because employers would rather you stretch at the beginning of the day than pay out worker’s comp.
It’s because America is built on insecurity. You never know if you’re rich enough, smart enough, skinny enough, pretty enough …
I wonder what anyone in Japan can say of the state of vanity over there. Is it relegated to an age ranges or genders, or is it beginning to pollute the culture entirely like in America?
My opinion is that Japan’s primary sin is pride and not necessarily vanity.
Or: diet is eaiser to commit to than going to the gym and going to the gym is easier than convincing your neighbours & city council to allow any sort of change to American style land use patterns that prevent destinations being within walkabout distances and destroy the profitability of transit.
> In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet.
It's almost as if both are important, but people tend to over simply and focus and be reductive and think if they just eat enough goji berries, they'll live forever.
While diet is obviously essential to a long life, it is not sufficient. There is a mountain of evidence that regular cardiovascular exercise is a pretty essential part of keeping your body working, as well as your mind.
Ima guess they mainly mean exercise, but also sleep.
Personally I obsessed about diet for a decade before I finally got religion about running for 30+ mins every day coming up on 2 years ago(I now typically run for more like an hour). It has made far more of an impact on my well being than any diet or fasting regimen… which, mind you,I was extremely strict about, like eating disorder levels of obsession. It has also made catching quality sleep a complete non-issue. I won’t lie, it took many months of consistency to feel these benefits, and I personally didn’t really see them when I was doing cardio only 3 times/120mins total per week on a bike and resistance training. My understanding is that this is probably a result of metabolic adaptation. Much the way I learned that the bacteria in your gut is a culture you grow and maintain, happy gut = happy me, I now think of my muscle mass as a crucial metabolic organ that needs to be properly conditioned for my bodies energy systems to function properly. Strong metabolism = little metabolic waste accumulating in your tissues and more of the machinery your body needs to work.
Unfortunately we live in a society where you have to make this a lifestyle, I personally find I have to keep my run very high on my list of personal priorities to stay consistent, as it is rather disruptive to my day. I have reflected that a lot of that is around cultural norms, so if this sort of routine was much more normalized it would be easier to integrate socially while still maintaining it. Sweaty people are only really annoying if you aren’t sweating with them. With how much sharper, more energetic, and emotionally regulated I feel, it amazes me that more employers don’t incentivize it-maybe someday.
That said, I’m in my mid 30s and I’ve never felt better in my life, so I’d say it’s worth while. I feel strong, faster, and much more durable, with virtually no pain and less illness/infection/inflammation than I had even in HS. Meanwhile my contemporaries are complaining of back and knee pain, frequent illness, poor sleep, dietary intolerance and out of control and appetite. They say, “I’m getting old” and I just shake my head.
I know it’s cliche as hell to say we were born to run, but seriously, our species almost certainly has an evolutionary legacy of running a lot, and I think many of us can tap into that legacy if we so desire.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at, but if you’re referring to weight, diet is significantly more important than lifestyle.
In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet, if your goal is to not be overweight. Obviously that doesn’t apply to all health metrics.
> In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet,
Depends on the person. If someone is eating such a large caloric excess and consuming highly processed calorie dense foods, changing diet is the only way out. You’re not going to out-exercise a 1000 calorie excess every day.
The average person might only be eating 200-300 calories more than their grandparents did, though. That’s actually within the range where you could overcome it with daily activity.
Really though, this isn’t a situation where you should pick or choose. Most people should be improving their diets and getting a little more activity.
> You’re not going to out-exercise a 1000 calorie excess every day.
I spend 4 hours on my phone every day per recent record. If I spend 2 of those outdoor then I'll have that 1000 calories.
It's realistically a choice.
I know this because I used to average 1500 active calories and around 2 hour of zone 2 training before my baby was born. Now I'm more time squeezed but looking at what I'm doing every day it's still a discipline issue. Getting back there though, goal is cracking 150 miles of running this month.
Its not, your thinking is way to simplistic. Body is not a simple machine. Hormones have dominant role here. Produce more insulin for whatever reason, you can eat whatever and you will be fat. Produce less insulin, you can eat whatever and you will still be lean. Exercise more, have more appetite.
What is unrealistic is caloric deficit, that is unsustainable, not sure why people have such a hard time understanding that. It is never about deficit on the long run.
Gut microbes are only recently being studied as a potential weight gain cause, too.
People having the exact same lifestyle and diet may have very different results.[1]
[1]: The Diet Myth from Dr Tim Spector
Not at all. This is also known for decades. Sterile mice get fat. Low dose antibiotic is used for animal fattening as dominant antibiotic source.
Okay, sure it's been studied for longer but until very recently it wasn't really in the debate—or rather, in the average Joe's mind. Go to a nutritionist and they will tell you to eat less than you consume despite it being much more complex.
So I maintain my point. In fact, most of HN, which I consider educated, probably doesn't know about that. I myself heard about it very recently.
I find HN's general knowledge extremely lacking when nutrition is in question, basically at the level of general population.
You're right that it is fundamentally about caloric deficit and my argument is that you can exercise enough that you can eat essentially as much as you want without gaining any weight.
I'm on double serving most days for breakfast and dinner since I eat 2 meals a day - and insulin wise I think I'm just normal medically speaking.
Your contention regarding diet and out-exercising surplus is generally true but not universal. I am occasionally at one extreme, where for a week or so I'll be expending 7000kcal/day and it's physically impossible to replace that amount of calories even with eating the highest caloric density foods I can stomach.
You allegedly expending 49,000 calories in a week when the discussion is about average people is irrelevant. The post already says it depends on the person too. On the other hand, I am curious how you are possibly exercising that much.
This is why I qualified my experience with being 'occasional.' Basically I do long distance bike races where you're biking for like 18+ hours a day for 2-6 days depending on event. It's an insane thing to do and an insane comparison to make when talking about normal people's diets, but it does illustrate that there is a limit to 'you can't out-exercise the calories.'
Are you running ultras every day?
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
But honestly these sentiments reflect my experience. When I bulk for muscle I will still get 5 miles of walking in daily on top of a cardio/strength workout and manage to still grow.
I've yet to hit a hiking season and gain weight tho, and those are the more interesting data points. Imagine eating 4k calories daily and still losing weight. 8 hours of trotting through mountain passes is a vibe
I think they're saying that diet is easier for people to commit to than going to the gym regularly and other lifestyle changes.
Going to the gym regularly is a strictly American thing. Americans are obsessed with gym culture in a way that other countries generally aren't.
Most exercise in Japan takes the form of constant walking. You can walk from most homes to stores and restaurants, from many homes to train stations, from many workplaces to train stations, etc. For many Americans, the most walking they do is the walk from the door to the car.
It's substantially easier to build up a lot of time exercising by just walking as part of the things you do in daily life; a dedicated workout is generally only about 45-90 minutes. And the people going to the gym in Japan are also participating in all that walking, generally.
With how car-centric North America is, there isn’t much to walk to for a lot of people. Things are just very far from each other. I’d walk places a whole lot more if I had things at a reasonable walking distance, I used to do it all the time when I didn’t have kids and lived closer to the city. Back then, I sold my car less than a month after moving there, and relied on car sharing services for the odd trip outside of town.
Nowadays, I’m in a medium-sized agricultural town in Canada, not far outside the larger metropolitan area where half the province lives. Realistically, at a walking distance, I have a convenience store, a drugstore, and a small co-op hardware store. The closest grocery store is at least a 30 minute walk. Both my sons’ school and daycare, the closest market or shops I’d go at, they are all 4+ away.
Americans , by the actual numbers of participation, don't actually go to the gym that much -- the ones that do are loud and have a lot of overlap with social media participation.
is radio taiso still a thing? Employee mandated exercise would go over like a lead balloon here.
We have employee mandated exercise in the construction industry in the US, because employers would rather you stretch at the beginning of the day than pay out worker’s comp.
It’s because America is built on insecurity. You never know if you’re rich enough, smart enough, skinny enough, pretty enough …
I wonder what anyone in Japan can say of the state of vanity over there. Is it relegated to an age ranges or genders, or is it beginning to pollute the culture entirely like in America?
My opinion is that Japan’s primary sin is pride and not necessarily vanity.
There is certainly vanity in Japan, it just looks different in terms of what they prize and how it manifests in cultural spheres like media. https://medium.com/japonica-publication/japans-toxic-beauty-...
Psychotic as usual. Oh well, what are you gonna do.
Or: diet is eaiser to commit to than going to the gym and going to the gym is easier than convincing your neighbours & city council to allow any sort of change to American style land use patterns that prevent destinations being within walkabout distances and destroy the profitability of transit.
It’s not, my mom moved in and I brought her on short daily walks. She lost 70 pounds in one year.
> In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet.
It's almost as if both are important, but people tend to over simply and focus and be reductive and think if they just eat enough goji berries, they'll live forever.
While diet is obviously essential to a long life, it is not sufficient. There is a mountain of evidence that regular cardiovascular exercise is a pretty essential part of keeping your body working, as well as your mind.
What do you mean by "lifestyle" here?
Ima guess they mainly mean exercise, but also sleep.
Personally I obsessed about diet for a decade before I finally got religion about running for 30+ mins every day coming up on 2 years ago(I now typically run for more like an hour). It has made far more of an impact on my well being than any diet or fasting regimen… which, mind you,I was extremely strict about, like eating disorder levels of obsession. It has also made catching quality sleep a complete non-issue. I won’t lie, it took many months of consistency to feel these benefits, and I personally didn’t really see them when I was doing cardio only 3 times/120mins total per week on a bike and resistance training. My understanding is that this is probably a result of metabolic adaptation. Much the way I learned that the bacteria in your gut is a culture you grow and maintain, happy gut = happy me, I now think of my muscle mass as a crucial metabolic organ that needs to be properly conditioned for my bodies energy systems to function properly. Strong metabolism = little metabolic waste accumulating in your tissues and more of the machinery your body needs to work.
Unfortunately we live in a society where you have to make this a lifestyle, I personally find I have to keep my run very high on my list of personal priorities to stay consistent, as it is rather disruptive to my day. I have reflected that a lot of that is around cultural norms, so if this sort of routine was much more normalized it would be easier to integrate socially while still maintaining it. Sweaty people are only really annoying if you aren’t sweating with them. With how much sharper, more energetic, and emotionally regulated I feel, it amazes me that more employers don’t incentivize it-maybe someday.
That said, I’m in my mid 30s and I’ve never felt better in my life, so I’d say it’s worth while. I feel strong, faster, and much more durable, with virtually no pain and less illness/infection/inflammation than I had even in HS. Meanwhile my contemporaries are complaining of back and knee pain, frequent illness, poor sleep, dietary intolerance and out of control and appetite. They say, “I’m getting old” and I just shake my head.
I know it’s cliche as hell to say we were born to run, but seriously, our species almost certainly has an evolutionary legacy of running a lot, and I think many of us can tap into that legacy if we so desire.
dieting is a part of your lifestyle, and has one of the largest impacts. Assuming you aren't a chronic smoker of course.