> Not fond of Pico.css’s weight, though: over 50KB, nowhere near as lightweight as the name suggests (even if it’s above-average compressible, 8KB gzipped—but I wouldn’t count even 8KB uncompressed as pico); in this case, if you flatten the variables and strip unused code, you’re left with under 4KB (~1.4KB gzipped). Lots of bloat from unused light mode support, things like form controls, and a fair bit of frivolous custom properties usage. This is the sort of place where I see the appeal of the likes of Tailwind, because they generate such huge amounts of CSS that you just about have to use an unused style remover. But it is another build step, and contrary to the deliberate intent here.
And it sounds like it has grown further. I don’t see 71kb, I see 83KB (11.6KB gzipped, 10.1KB brotli). At that point I wouldn’t even call it small, and it’s even getting past medium-sized into large territory.
I’ve been thinking about creating a CSS tool somewhere about halfway between new.css and Pico CSS for very basic page layout tools (containers, callouts, menu bars, etc) that still focuses on being extremely small and performant.
I feel that a tool like that would be helpful for laying out a simple but functional site (sourcehut’s site [1] comes to mind) where you need a few basic layout tools but don’t need all of Bootstrap.
I’d love to see NeatCSS on your list. It’s not officially classless but I try to make it semantic as much as possible. I bookmarked you GitHub repo (which you should link on the page if I didn’t miss it). I’ll give it a try myself to see if it works (and maybe make adjustments).
I think this would be excellent. There's a whole class of websites /landing pages which right now Astro seems to be filling that niche. It's mind boggling how hard it is to do basic components on the web
Four years ago I wrote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28860500:
> Not fond of Pico.css’s weight, though: over 50KB, nowhere near as lightweight as the name suggests (even if it’s above-average compressible, 8KB gzipped—but I wouldn’t count even 8KB uncompressed as pico); in this case, if you flatten the variables and strip unused code, you’re left with under 4KB (~1.4KB gzipped). Lots of bloat from unused light mode support, things like form controls, and a fair bit of frivolous custom properties usage. This is the sort of place where I see the appeal of the likes of Tailwind, because they generate such huge amounts of CSS that you just about have to use an unused style remover. But it is another build step, and contrary to the deliberate intent here.
And it sounds like it has grown further. I don’t see 71kb, I see 83KB (11.6KB gzipped, 10.1KB brotli). At that point I wouldn’t even call it small, and it’s even getting past medium-sized into large territory.
There is also a semantic-based CSS that is overwhelmingly smaller than this one: https://newcss.net/
And I think this is so minimal
New.css developer here, thanks for sharing :)
I’ve been thinking about creating a CSS tool somewhere about halfway between new.css and Pico CSS for very basic page layout tools (containers, callouts, menu bars, etc) that still focuses on being extremely small and performant.
I feel that a tool like that would be helpful for laying out a simple but functional site (sourcehut’s site [1] comes to mind) where you need a few basic layout tools but don’t need all of Bootstrap.
[1]: https://sourcehut.org/
I’d love to see NeatCSS on your list. It’s not officially classless but I try to make it semantic as much as possible. I bookmarked you GitHub repo (which you should link on the page if I didn’t miss it). I’ll give it a try myself to see if it works (and maybe make adjustments).
I think this would be excellent. There's a whole class of websites /landing pages which right now Astro seems to be filling that niche. It's mind boggling how hard it is to do basic components on the web
Tailwind is semantic too because the class names say what they do.
That's not what semantic means.
Stop arguing semantics!
That’s if you load it all from the CDN though, build your own with SASS and it’s much smaller.
I agree. beercss is less than 20kb and about the biggest 'minimal' I would consider
Indeed. I was expecting 5-10Kb. Tbf, it's only 11 zipped.
At Neat CSS website author says that zipping needs some action at browser side and it is not worth it for small css frameworks…