What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point
It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. On some delivery apps , the driver can decide which jobs to take based on the pre-service tip. So the companies have effectively put the responsibility to pay driver's base wage on the users themselves, while the company still takes a huge corporate cut
I suggested we do this at work. We’ll add a tip field to our Jira tickets and whoever’s ticket is worth the most gets priority. Oh you submitted a production incident a week ago? Sorry, there’s not even $5 on it, we filter those out.
We may just get this, along with a $7.25 per hour base wage!
It's $2.13 for tipped employees.
Not in all states. California does not have a lower tipped minimum wage. It's at least $16 here last I checked (except $20 for fast food because "reasons")
Ah yes; for a bit my wife was making less as a preschool teacher than the minimum wage at McDonalds. I understand it caused a bit of turnover at the local public schools, since cafeteria workers and aides were making less than $20/hr in 2024 as well (I don't know if they still are).
Reminds me of when I was visiting family a few years ago in Kentucky. I kept seeing tons of ads everywhere about hiring for plumbers, and some warehouse roles.
The listed salaries were not that far off from what even the local McDonald’s was paying
There was a (at least local) McDonald's inversion just after Covid; they were paying $20/hr which was competitive or better than the local factories.
It's one of those "reset" things you need to do now and then, because it's really easy for an industry like CNA or similar to end up paying less than the gas station for more annoying work.
So it does make great sense for a CNA or a preschool teacher to be quite a bit more highly paid than a gas station attendant or fry cook, due to the much higher responsibility level and like you said the annoyance.
However, I don't think anything that's happened in the last 5 years has helped that. If anything, the inflation has cost everyone dearly, but if I put 20% of my income into stocks I am less impacted than poor people who put 100% of their income into goods and services whose prices have gone up as a result of everyone's wages.
The 2.13 tipped wage is a great way to know if you're in a "shithole" state or not. Only shithole states keep that.
Same goes for the regular 7.25 federal minimum.
let’s not get too lofty, the federal base tipped wage is $2.13
gotta charge less than the hourly cost of a B200 to remain employed
Fun fact, we had this at an old job. It was a charge code field in Jira. It was required whenever you requested work from an external team. It operated like a credit card with a set budget. If you bothered other teams a lot, you ran out of money. Department heads set their price.
It sounds great in theory. But a black market quickly developed, and people figured out ways to circumvent it. People created tickets for their own teams and shared laptops.
On delivery apps it should be called a "bid" and I think honestly it would be more ethical than the shady nonsense they do now if they went all in on that.
If the apps were actually what they claim to be (a marketplace to connect hirers and workers) that's exactly what you'd have - the cost of the food + flat fee for the platform + your bid for the work. The platform could even suggest a bid, but you could choose to bid higher or lower depending on what you think would go through.
But that's not what they are; they're shady "avoid employment laws" companies.
I often see the claim that it would be above board/legit/not a circumvention of employment laws if they ran a bidding system like that. But ... that's exactly how Sidecar worked (Uber competitor, shut down Dec 2014), and I never saw anyone distinguish them from Uber in their criticisms (until people forgot that model existed).
i like the idea of bids, but only if its coupled with the ability of workers to just outright reject the offer.
the problem is that there's still a guarantee of service for the user regardless of what you bid. if i want my burritos delivered at 2AM and am only willing to bid $1 on delivery labor, i shouldn't expect that my burritos will be delivered.
for tips, the model is "the work will be done and i'll pay extra if it's good". but with bids its "how much do i need to pay to get this work started"
> It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer.
How does this work? The corp already handles some form of payment to the worker, especially when you tip as part of a card payment. And in both cases, the consumer foots the bill.
How's it different from paying the worker more and asking for more money upfront?
The gready sleazeballs who like the "tipping" system (mostly, restaurant owners) would prefer to pay all their employees $0 and have all diners/customers/etc pay 100% of the wages out of guilt.
While 10% was customary in the first half of the 20th century, the standard tip gradually increased to 15% by the 1980s.
In 2025 it's not uncommon to see little shortcut buttons for 20, 25, 30%. You can see where this is going. They want us to tip 50% and they pay $0, even though restaurant menu prices are one of the things that has experienced more inflation than other things.
> would prefer to pay all their employees $0 and have all diners/customers/etc pay 100% of the wages out of guilt.
It is my understanding that this is literally the origin of tipping.
After the abolition of slavery, there were many black people newly looking for work. And, there were employers looking for workers, but unwilling to pay money to black people.
So, someone got the idea to promote that tipping was something fancy European aristocrats did. And, you can be fancy like they were by tipping my workers (that I refuse to pay).
Tipping was previously seen as un-Americanly classist. And, most states tried to ban it when it started to pick up steam. But, it was too late. So many employers were enjoying unpaid labor that the bans were repealed.
Later, when Minimum Wage was established, workers who lived on tips alone were almost all black. So, unsurprisingly, tipped workers were excluded from the wage regulation. And, today they are only acknowledged as fractional minimum laborers.
Perhaps shouting these problematic racist origins from the rooftops is our best shot at getting the support of the Left on board to at least establish that having business models based on obligatory tipping is unethical, if not to ban it.
It would backfire. They’re already losing the culture war. I don’t think the demographic you’re targeting will be very valuable on the scale of real political action.
The workers love the tipping system too, and it is directly in their interest to talk about how much it sucks, so that you are guilted into tipping more.
I spent 10 years in the food service industry working every position. The whole thing is racket, and the narrative used is carefully worded.
When I first had the money to pay for restaurant food ca. 1975, 15% was standard. I think that the Waiter Rant guy considered anything under 20% an insult, about 30 years after that.
Ah yes, the greedy sleazeballs. If you knew that the total cost of the meal would be the same, say $20 for the meal, does it to you matter if: 1) you pay $20 "no tip" and the owner pays non-tip minimum wage, or b) you pay $16.50 for the food and $3.50 separately to the server in the form of a tip ?
The problem is that the customer does not know the cost of the meal; they typically rely on the business owner to be upfront about that. Tipping is guilt-motivated drip pricing. The only thing the commenter got wrong is that the restaurateur has to prime the customer with some cost so they can voluntarily add a percentage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drip_pricing
> If you knew that the total cost of the meal would be the same,..
Huh, why should I know this at all. I read the prices online or in restaurant when I enter in. I will assume that as my cost of food.
> If you knew that the total cost of the meal
That's the crux of it. All surcharges are scams designed to trick the customer into thinking the meal is priced lower than it is. Sales tax not built into menu prices is a scam that the government is at fault for allowing. All other surcharges including the socially-obligatory tip and the scummy "health care surcharges" common in California, are scams that the restaurant is choosing to do. All of these are insulting.
It's no different than telling women I'm 6' and then when they meet me revealing that's only when I'm wearing cowboy boots and a big hat.
There is a very clear different from the consumer's point of view between paying a 20% delivery fee with no tip (and realistically having most drivers still expect an in-person tip) and a 5% delivery fee with a tip amount of your choosing (and maybe only 1/1000 drivers expecting/requesting yet more).
I have always been a generous tipper and I try to always put myself in that person's shoes when deciding how much to tip but even I notice the psychological difference. If you don't ever think about it, have never had a job waiting tables or dealing with the public, it'd almost be a nonstarter to have a higher delivery fee regardless of tip expectation.
psychologically they are very different. Framing the wages as a "tip" moves the conversation to the drivers and users, where users think tips are an out of hand culture problem and drivers view the users as stingy. Then the company sits out of the spotlight collecting their absurd rents
It moves the real cost of the additional labor from the prices displayed for items (like you would see in a B&M grocery store) to some tertiary part of the purchase process that is displayed 1) after the used has gone through the effort of app navigation and selecting their purchases and 2) has been through the majority of the purchase funnel and self-selected as a high-prospect sale. This helps keep the listed prices for items in these apps relatively comparable to their in-store listed prices, acting to convince the user the sale is reasonable (similar to online sellers making up for low listed prices with high shipping prices). Moving this additional cost to some tertiary step lessens the impact of goods pricing seeming too high by adding a "small optional fee" at the end of the purchase process that the user is expected to subconciously understand is effectively a bid on labor. I'd imagine the psychology behind it is depressing.
That is true. What is also true is that having things delivered to you is not free, and the prices of the goods cannot be same for delivery vs warehousing in a store.
Sure it can.
I'm not saying it's free but it's not a foregone conclusion that 100% (or any percent) of that cost must be passed on to the consumer.
If a manufacturer/distributor/restaurant is willing to accept lower margins for the increased reach and market access, they will.
It cannot be the case because the business would cease to exist in their current form if they did that. They would close their retail stores and become online only, because there is now zero incentive for anyone to go to the store instead of ordering it and having it delivered.
Different because now list price of a sandwich is $8.99 instead of $14 that customer will actually pay. Hotels, resorts, restaurants, tours etc are master at this. Even after knowing these add-ons people fall for it often enough to keep this practice running.
Besides economists think positively of this so it has support not just from interested parties but officials, think tanks etc.
> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service
Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?
I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service".
What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?
>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?
As in any tip at all? No, from me. I don’t think I’ve never _not_ tipped when the situation expects it (sit down restaurant being served). I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live), which is already too low in my opinion, so they get something.
The amount of the tip certainly is highly dependent on level of service. That could be a significant difference at the end. I’ve tipped over 100% when the staff has done someone that stood out to me.
(Having been a server in the past and now in tech, I feel guilty about the work-level/salary imbalance, so I am generally generous with my tips.)
> I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live)
The restaurants I worked at (a variety of family places and bars) everyone was paid $2.13/hr or something like that. And after taxes, you would get a paycheck for $0.00.
but
The same people who jumped to tell you that they got paid less than minimum wage (especially when customers inquired about it), were making $40-80K year in reality. The service industry is all about hours worked, and which hours you work. A lot of young workers refuse to work the busy shifts (weekends), and hate dinner shifts (could be out with friends) so they only work the slow shifts and make ~$20/hr * 18 hours or something like that.
But the people there to make money? They work all the busy shifts and slow shifts to fill the gap (they work a full 40 hours), and the money is insane for what the work is. Meanwhile they will happily tell you they get paychecks for $0.00 and only made $50 on Monday at lunch.
In my country, which does have a tipping culture, the norm is to give a 10% tip in restaurants as a default, for competent service, decent food, etc. If the service is worse than normal (rude server, cold food, huge wait times, mistaken orders etc) you'd live a lower tip, possibly none at all. If the service is great, you might leave a higher tip - though 20% would be considered huge, 12-15% might be quite normal for very good service.
> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?
Sad if this is no longer the case.
In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.
France here - no tip is the norm, tip is for service above & beyond... But, contrary to the USA, everyone gets a proper living wage !
Depends on when you are. Making minimum wage while living in Paris isn't exactly a "proper living wage".
Still it's not the scam that passes for wage in the US (especially considering cost of living and other expenses). And Paris can be anything, from expensive neighborhoods to project suburbs.
That isn't the customers problem though nor should it be.
The only issue with restaurants in France is that they close up early, or only open within strict lunch hours.
If you're paying a relatively high hourly wage to all of the staff, it seems unsurprising that you'd not want to be open during times of low customer traffic.
Honestly, this seems good overall; there's no more sense in having low-paid waitstaff hanging around hoping to get a customer table that will tip than in having a restaurant owner keep the restaurant open while paying the staff a reasonable hourly wage.
In France, I always thought it was customary to leave the change from l'addition. (I'm not French though, so perhaps I was commiting a faux pas)
I can confirm in Italy almost no one will even accept a tip. (Taxi drivers, wait-staff, hotel staff)
> leave the change from l'addition
Yes, that is the basic tip if you expect to come back to that restaurant and get an upgraded welcome.
But even with no tip, being a regular counts - tip or no tip, you are good business and worth cultivating.
> In the UK at least this is still very much the case.
Except for the very pervasive 12.5% "discretionary" service charge the you would have to request to be removed. Which is a genius piece of social engineering.
I live in the UK, and I personally have never given a tip, I don't think I've even seen it as an option other than physically giving the other person some cash, but AFAIK its generally seen as something you do if the service was excellent, but as I say I've never done it myself. I'm not generally in situations where it could be warranted, like I don't really eat out much or anything like that
As someone who also lives in the UK this surprises me. Almost every restaurant I eat at now takes the liberty of adding a 10% service charge onto every bill. I assume the idea of which is to make it awkward/embarrassing for you to request to have it taken off.
I may have had this happen without realising, but in my head, a tip is something you choose to add on extra, whether for good service or because the workers aren't getting paid properly. If I get a service charge, that's more like just part of the bill that I would pay, though I've only really noticed it as part of online stuff, for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas (for some reason, I can't imagine that the process isn't fully automatic by now)
> for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas
OT but the kind of bank that charges £25 for something like that is almost certainly robbing you blind on the exchange rate, too.
You've never had excellent service for something?
Yes, in countries outside the US I don't tip unless I got especially good service. Servers get paid (at least) minimum wage here and if they want more they should take it up with their employer like the rest of us.
In the US I usually tip but have refused to do so when the service was especially bad - although even then its a hard decision because you often don't know who is actually responsible for the bad service.
In my country the norm is for tips to be rounding based rather than percentage. So if your bill is 327.5, you would pay 350, effectively a "keep the change" sort of gesture.
I have certainly starred them in the eye and waited for them to ostentatiously count out every last penny when the service was truly abominable. It's a fairly effective way to give feedback.
You can also of course round up higher, so in the previous example for exceeding expectations you could round up to 400.
In 30+ years I’ve given exactly two restaurant servers 0% tip - it takes a lot for me to give someone nothing, but somehow they met the challenge.
In some scenarios, 1% tip can be informative to humans and data mining algorithms.
>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?
That's the only way people give tips here (not US tho)
Hehe, in here (US) tip for a bad hair cut in 15 dollars is 5 dollars. For better haircut maybe go for fancy salon if one is so particular about hairs.
> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?
Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?
In the US, the tip is an expected part of the expense of eating out (and increasingly having any human in the loop). I hate it, and I really wish it wasn’t the case, but it pretty much is. If you say “I didn’t tip because the service was what I expected”, you’re pretty much considered an asshole.
(Incidentally, this is also one of the reasons why the costs of eating out in the US and seem so much lower. Most people who come from non-tipping cultures don’t understand that Americans actually tend to pay significantly more than sticker price, especially after you include taxes, which are also often excluded).
Relative numbers (e.g. 1% above or below an average) can ferry signals to both humans and data mining algorithms.
https://plus.maths.org/content/information-surprise
> Shannon wanted to measure the amount of information you could transmit via various media. There are many ways of sending messages: you could produce smoke signals, use Morse code, the telephone, or (in today's world) send an email. To treat them all on equal terms, Shannon decided to forget about exactly how each of these methods transmits a message and simply thought of them as ways of producing strings of symbols. How do you measure the information contained in such a string?
>If you say “I didn’t tip because the service was what I expected”, you’re pretty much considered an asshole
Sorry, this is definitely not the case. Many times the worker is doing exactly what is needed and nothing more (eg: pour a beer in a glass, handing me a pizza). Why would I be considered an asshole if I didn't tip? That is ridiculous.
As other people have said, tipping in the US has really become obnoxious. I definitely tip while seated for a meal, but asking for a tip to hand me a cup of coffee, pour a beer, etc only makes the system worse.
Why does sitting down cause you to tip?
Why would employees in front of a counter be more deserving than employees behind a counter?
Or perhaps I should put it like: Why would a business need to pay a predictable market rate salary for employees behind the counter, but not for employees in front of the counter (because you step in and provide it instead)?
Because the person serving a beer at a bar simply poured me a beer. I walked up to the bar where I ordered from the menu. The level of interaction with staff = 1. Effort from staff = 1.
The the waiter/waitress had to come to my table, discuss the menu, provide feedback on questions, submitted order to kitchen, delivered order, checked back on us to see if we need anything else, etc. Level of interaction with staff > 1, level of effort from staff > 1. Tip appropriately if level of effort > 1 for helpfulness, politeness, attentiveness, etc. Stop making this so hard.
So how many hours is the walking waiter working in a day, and how many hours is the standing waiter working?
If anything it seems to me that it would be more logical to tip the person doing the more boring and repetitive work.
(My personal opinion is that tipping in general is a blight on a modern society and something that belong in primitive third-world economies. The way to fix this is via legislation: we simply make all forms of both receiving and giving tips illegal. It probably won't take much enforcement to quickly shift the social norms and economic practices once the wheels get rolling).
I 100% agree with your value judgement. Nevertheless, the social pressure exists.
The OP above you is guaranteed to have had their food spat in or otherwise tortured as punishment for not tipping.
Tipping isn't just a social thing, there are real physical punishments for not doing it!
Non-technical solution: move to a location with high social trust, e.g. neighbors and workers know and support each other socially and economically.
I feel like you’re making their point. If the “punishment“ for paying sticker price is you getting actually hurt, then it’s not a tip, it’s extortion. A social custom that the customary price of something is 30% more expensive than what the sticker says is unfortunate. A social custom of extortion is abominable.
>The OP above you is guaranteed to have had their food spat in or otherwise tortured as punishment for not tipping.
Wait, what??? Do you honestly believe the worker pours a cup of coffee in a to-go cup, hands it to me, checks the receipt for a tip, then grabs it back to spit in it? What kind of delusional thinking is this? How does the food delivery person even know the tip amount before the receipt? This kind of thinking is exactly why the system is so out of hand.
In my personal experience, the belief that “you should tip no matter what” is surprisingly pervasive. Anecdotally, I once had a situation where a restaurant completely dropped the ball—they brought me a cup of coffee, then never returned to take my order, even after I asked. After wasting my time, I had to leave and eat elsewhere. I didn’t leave a tip, yet many of my peers insisted I still should have. I disagree. The idea of tipping someone for poor service—especially when they’re clearly not even trying—is, frankly, sickening. If that makes me the a-hole in these situations, so be it—I’d rather be that than reward apathy.
If you’re asked for a 20/25/30% tip before they even start preparing your food, and you need to make extra clicks while the tip recipient is looking at you if you want to tip lower, theres a small fear that the food you ordered wont be prepared as well as someone who left the tip
On a gig delivery app, you give a tip so that someone will be happy to deliver it and not mess up your food, I think. a 0% tip is risking stuff. You can't really say it's a reward for the service though, more of a payment to secure better service?
Lots of places will now ask for tips before the food comes out even in person now - lunch sandwich shops, etc. I don't think they'd be unprofessional enough to mess up your order if you didn't tip, but maybe they'll be happier with you or be more generous if you tip now too.
On some delivery apps, tips can be increased after service delivery, e.g. baseline at time of order, bonus after good service.
> 0% tip is risking stuff
There are more numbers between zero and good! Markets depend on information. Price has been information for centuries.
The insurance industry has actuarial lessons for managing risk. The delivery app industry has a range of policy measures for managing delivery performance, including but not limited to refunds and blacklisting workers from serving specific clients.
I don't think they know you tipped until the delivery is complete, to avoid that precisely.
That's traditionally what's called a protection racket rather than a tip.
At least where I am from tipping is more done to round out the bill to a nice number.
Well I am giving tip because of fucking nag screen on payment terminal.
Can the screen be ignored, e.g. when tipping with cash?
Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?
Yes.
It might be a way for them to prioritize your order before others as they see how much money they earn, so actually it's a bidding process disguised as tipping. I'm not sure if it's shown in the backend though, but I have seen things like this in other delivery apps.
Why would they prioritize you when you've already paid? Wouldn't they first go after the possibility of more tip money on jobs that haven't yet paid it? I mean, if I was a driver, unless there are more high tip jobs than I could handle, I'd take those and fill in with low tip jobs, and I'd deliver the low tip jobs first in a hope of getting an after the fact tip.
Delivery drivers on some apps are told the expected pay for a trip. If you don't tip, they might decline the job because it costs them more to deliver then they make.
This makes your order sit longer until someone decides to do it, perhaps because there's a penalty from the company for declining jobs, and the driver is willing to lose money to remain in good standing
So it’s hiding behind social pressure to externalise costs? Which I guess is tipping in general.
Ooh that’s actually a really interesting question. Because you’ve retroactively signaled that you will pay more for priority service? Or that you’re dumb. Needs to be iterated. Incentives depend strongly on population of both drivers and customers.
A lot of times, that makes the order come slower. A higher tip means the app will pair your order with someone else that didn't tip or tipped smaller, using your money to make up the difference. I consistently get faster deliveries when I tip towards "the average" instead of over tipping
Why would you keep using an app that you suspect was cynically exploiting your generosity like that? I’d drive every time rather than encourage such behaviour.
>Why would you keep using an app that you suspect was cynically exploiting your generosity like that? I’d drive every time rather than encourage such behaviour.
Surely you already know that choosing things doesn't always simplify down to a single dimension. Instead, there are multiple factors that lead people to deliberately choose options that have negatives.
E.g. Why do people continue to use Ryanair airlines if they always nickel & dime customers and treat them like shit?!? Because the mistreatment by Ryanair is still better than driving for 6 hours or paying more $$$ for Air France or KLM.
Likewise, why do customers continue playing along with the tips/bribery/ransom game in the delivery app?!? Because the user-hostile app is still better than rounding up the small toddlers and infant into the car, fasten the car seat, and drive to the restaurant.
Life doesn't always provide unambiguous good options. Instead, you choose the "least bad" from the list of bad options.
In a Louis Rossmann video (i think it was the one on food delivery guys on e-bikes) he mentions never tipping in app but leaving a note that says he will give a cash tip if the driver brings the food straight to his door. That seems like a decent compromise as it doesn't let the app take a cut from the tip and makes so the driver actually goes the extra mile to 'deserve' the tip.
Weirdly on Reddit I keep getting the doordash and ubereats communities pushed at me - there is a very strong view amongst people using these apps that anyone who says they will "give a cash tip" will not actually do it, so it's probably not as beneficial as you might think.
The tips on the apps nominally do go entirely to the driver.
>* but leaving a note that says he will give a cash tip if the driver brings the food straight to his door.*
Why, where else would they take the food? Leave in at the patio? Drop it on the lawn?
About half the time I order UberEats I get a call from the driver that they're here and to come downstairs because they won't enter my apartment building. Could be laziness, it could also be because the street parking is always full and so the only place to park close by is a fire hydrant.
The app has different options for meeting in the lobby / come to my unit and I always select my unit, but whatever, I get why they might not do that.
Leaving it on the porch, on the street closest to their car, with the front lobby in an apartment building...
There's quite a lot of places people will think to leave food if they're rushing to pick up another job.
Some people live in multi-tenant buildings where "your door" is not the buildings entrance.
Thank you for this tip on analog defense against digital dark patterns!
You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality.
Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order.
Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.
Hm. If it is an open market, the consumer should also be able to decline/filter drivers, that take tips. Maybe it is a market, but sadly not open.
You can already filter out drivers that don't take tips (so, filter to zero) by just not placing the order.
But that filter is at best inaccurate then isnt it? Surely there exists a driver which would accept a tipless delivery, but you cannot find them because all you can do is decline to do business.
Americans need to remove the idea of tipping. It's archaic, because it was originally there for an aristocratic/wealthy patron to show off their status to the lowly servants of an establishment.
Just charge a price, and have it include the full service fee required for providing the service.
If you enter zero tip then you will find drivers who accept that because the rest won't accept.
> You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market.
IMHO, this isn't a new phenomenon. Close to 18 years ago, I lived in a city with a popular pizza spot that was about a 10 minute walk away. Normally I'd walk, but having a newborn make that challenging, so I'd get delivery.
Typically, the delivery would take 60+ minutes on a busy night, but after a few consecutive Fridays of a decent tip for the order, the pizza would arrive "burn your fingers" in about 20 minutes.
> bidding in an open market.. they don't tell you... apps done a lot of work to conceal
Markets have prices.
Open markets have transparent pricing for efficient discovery.
Concealed prices in deniable auctions are closer to dark pools than open markets.
Surely most customers would benefit from knowing that they’re bidding for service? Don’t call it a tip, but a bid or priority fee.
You already are able to pay more for 5-20 minutes of "priority".
All that this does is ensure you don't get stacked with another order ahead of you (so the delivery is direct from the restaurant to the person who ordered) in theory.
It doesn't help with situations where drivers are multi-apping (accepting orders across multiple apps and juggling them). The drivers don't even know you have priority.
edit: and in the US where you can definitely see the tip up front, you will almost always find that the order will get picked up quicker if you increase the tip by the equivalent of the priority fee. But you may well get stuck with a delivery before yours.
In my experience, choosing the priority option is nearly a guarantee that I will get a driver who makes extra stops while delivering my order.
It's wild because this happens maybe 10-15% of the time for me when I don't choose priority, but it's around 80% when I do.
I ignore the option now and just bump the tip if I want a chance of better service.
this feels weird to me because i always thought i already paid for the service as part of my order. having to go into a open, blind bidding war with other customers to gett my order processed ...
With Wolt the rider can’t see tips until after delivery.
... Which they can still use against you
Doesn’t affect anything in my country using the same apps. I’ve always gotten fast delivery, as does everyone I know and nobody tips. Tipping is for yanks.
That's bad, but even worse is the Bluetti website, which asks you for a service tip FOR AN ONLINE ORDER!
I started using Fiverr for outsourcing some tasks and they push you to tip after the transaction.
That's not a tip, it's a bid. Expect a lot more businesses to start operating like this if no tax on tips goes into effect.
Tipping is more like a form of price discrimination. It allows restaurants to indirectly charge different customers different amounts based on ability to pay.
Tip before service is a bribe in my book.
(Uber started to pop up tip options before the ride ends, sometimes as soon as the ride starts.)
They’re just saying the quiet part out loud, the tip isn’t for service, it’s for their basic wage.
Is almost like a bribe I guess?
It's mostly a convenience, so that you don't have to look for coins or remember to tip online later. Uber here even tells you that the driver doesn't get informed about the tip until an hour after delivery, so you can still edit it in case you change your mind.
we can regulate the intermediary
we can literally get the state to say it is illegal for the point of sale system to have that or sell that to merchants
we can tie it to business codes that dictate which type of business it is to payment processors
control behavior by regulating the intermediary
the beauty of this philosophy is that it works under any system of government: don’t worry about the rights afforded to merchants or individuals, don’t burden them with the law at all, only intermediaries!
poof, tips at the point of sale system before receiving service disappears as fast as it came, short Square (now Block)
we can go deeper too
A delivery app tip is a way to influence drivers to pick your order, they can see what the expected value of a delivery is and if your tip is too low, your order will take a while.
Consider it a premium that prioritizes your order, that’s what it actually is.
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