> I mean, at this point ICE is basically a secret police that disappears people, not unlike Stasi or Gestapo from years past.
Do you have an example of ICE "disappearing" a US citizen or murdering someone? If not, they're nothing like the Stasi or the Gestapo.
It's a bad idea to cry wolf this much, because the wolf might actually come.
Please do me a favor.
Write down on a sticky note "if the government sends a US citizen to CECOT I will..." and fill in the rest of this sentence. Put it somewhere you see it everyday.
I'm personally absolutely sick of the "oh it is not a problem until..." lines moving basically daily. Everybody defending this administration needs to commit to a line otherwise I fully expect to see posts saying what you are saying here with ever more brutal and violent outcomes from the state for the rest of time.
The problem is that there's no mechanism to prevent that. And there's a pretty clear route to it happening: first mistaken immigrants, then mistaken murders, then mistaken "domestic terrorists" -- and you have the federal gov. disappearing political opponents.
The issue with these extrajudicial renditions to foreign prisions is the extrajudicial part. The rest of it is just immoral -- the former part, a catastrophe.
The extrajudicial part has been around since the Clinton administration[1]. Somehow neither Obama nor Biden chose to get rid of this policy.
> Within days of his 2009 inauguration, Barack Obama signed an executive order opposing rendition torture and established a task force to provide recommendations about processes to prevent rendition torture. His administration distanced itself from some of the harshest counterterrorism techniques but permitted the practice of rendition to continue
The new part here is that it's foreign nationals being taken from US soil instead of another country's soil.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
Yes, the new part is that it's extrajudicial. The rendition of foreign citizens can be done without a court, because they aren't covered by the US constitution. Only those "under the power of the united states government" are granted due process by US courts.
The line being cross in taking persons unknown to courts from the united states, to a forieng country, isnt "a new part". It's to suspend the constitution and grant the president the power not merely to arbitarily detain, but to do so in a foreign prison.
It's hard to understate how serious this is. If it were only this, and nothing else, we might hope it will stay bounded by the "hopefully" diligient ICE. But coupled with the assault on all rival systems to presidental power, there's nothign to be hopeful about.
The constitution has been suspend, the president has sequestered the force of the federal government to bring under his private power the whole of american society, begining with the most powerful rivals: the courts, the media, the universities, the law first, and so on.
He will next suspend the broadcasting licence for media outlets.
Optimistically, the supreme court could suspend his emergency powers -- as they ought, since there is no war or emergency. This may make the federal government unable to execute his wishes -- but if they've replaced enough workers there already, it might be too late.
> Do you have an example of ICE "disappearing" a US citizen
I mean, once they start disappearing people that are completely legal in the country, disappearing citizens is just a minor step forward.
By all means, I am not in the US, I'll keep enjoying my popcorn from afar. I wonder if when the ovens are turned on in some Central American death camp you will move the goalposts to "but, but we don't even have gas showers yet".
> cry wolf
The wolf has been here for a while buddy, we are just discussing what color and size it is.
Non-citizens are also human beings with natural rights, just FYI.
Trump has already publicly alluded to shipping citizens to El Salvador, aka "disappearing". That means its already a possibility in his mind, which brings us pretty close to it happening.