(My opinion only, please treat it as just one person's thought process, not some eternal truth)

As a frontend dev, for me it's primarily just an ecosystem thing. There's nothing wrong with HTMX or any other solution, like Ruby on Rails or Hotwire or even other JS frameworks like Angular or Gatsby, but they are not really what I see in the majority of the web dev ecosystem.

By ecosystem, I mean this:

- Developers are easy to find & hire for, and can work on existing code without much training because there are (relatively) standardized practices

- For any common problem, I can easily reuse (or at least learn from the source for) a package on NPM

- For any uncommon problem, I can find multiple robust discussion about it on various forums, Stack, etc. And ChatGPT probably has a workable overview.

- I can reasonably expect medium-term robust vendor support, not just from the framework developers but various hosts, third-party commercial offerings (routers, state management, UI libs, CMSes, etc.), i.e., it's going to stay a viable ecosystem for 3-5 years at least

- I don't have to reinvent the wheel for every new project / client, and can spin up a working prototype in a few minutes using boilerplates and 1-click deploys

I've been building websites since I was a kid some 30 years ago, first using Perl and cgi-bin and then PHP, and evolved my stack with it over time.

I've never been as productive as I am in the modern React ecosystem, especially with Next or Vite + MUI (https://mui.com/). Primarily this is because it allows me to build on top of other people's work and spend time only on the business logic of my app, at a very high level of abstraction (business components) and with a very high likelihood of being able find drop-in solutions for most common needs. I'm not reinventing the wheel constantly, or dealing with low-level constructs like manually updating the DOM. Or worse, dealing with server issues or updating OS packages.

What used to take days/weeks of setup now takes one click and two minutes, and I can have a useable prototype up in 2-3 hours. Because 95%+ of my codebase isn't mine anymore; I can just reuse what someone else built, and then reframe it for my own needs. And when someone else needs to continue the work, they can just pick up where I left off with minimal onboarding, because they probably already have React knowledge.

I think React, for all its faults, has just reached a point of saturation where it's like the old "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM", i.e., it's a safe, proven bet for most use cases. It may or may not be the BEST bet for any project, but it's probably good enough that it would at least warrant consideration, especially if the other stacks have less community/ecosystem support.

At the end of the day, my job isn't to deliver the leanest frontend as close to the HTML as possible, it's to meet business needs. Robust componentization and a rich ecosystem are better for doing that, quickly and easily, than simpler or less popular solutions, again because it allows me to build off so much other people's work. There's a steep learning curve upfront, but once you learn it, day-to-day work is relatively straightforward and productive.

I think you’re somewhere off base here. Yes, you understand React very well, but many don’t. And HTMX gives you a lot of leverage without needing to (1) deal with learning React, (2) deal with all the extra baggage that comes with it (oodles of extra complexity and code)

I don't disagree with any of that...? My argument was that as a frontender, the added complexity is worth it because the ecosystem is so huge that it enables a lot of code re-use. I don't see the same "easy to build on top"-ness in other frameworks, whether it's HTMX or even other JS frameworks.

For simpler projects, I absolutely don't think it's necessary to learn a JS framework or (or even just React). But for apps of medium complexity and up, it's been a super productive system to work in, full-time, with other React devs and open-source contributions. The reusable component model is SUPER important in my day-to-day work and outweighs a lot of other factors (like technical complexity). The complexity you have to learn once (or every year or two), whereas the code re-use/NPM drop-ins is like multiple times a day.

Edit: Really it comes down to this: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-t... (under "Professional developers"). It's just a lot easier to use what everyone else is using. HTMX sadly doesn't even make the list, as far as I can tell :(