Yeah, the ad situation really is so horrible it is worth paying to get out of it. Also supporting an inde dev to provide a useful app with the equivalent of a nice cup of coffee doesn't feel all that bad.
Well, it's a $5 app on the App Store. ~$3.20 will go towards paying the indie dev, and most of the remaining ~$1.50 will go directly into Apple's coffers as a reward for doing such a good job locking down their operating system.
Kinda feels like Apple is deliberately making it horrible so you view paying them as the only ethical solution. For example, I don't have to do this song-and-dance to block ads on non-monopolized platforms.
> Well, it's a $5 app on the App Store. ~$3.20 will go towards paying the indie dev, and most of the remaining ~$1.50 will go directly into Apple's coffers as a reward for doing such a good job locking down their operating system.
This is not a defense but merely a correction: The small developer program is 85%/15% rather than 70%/30% for anyone making less than $1 million per year.
I mean I pay on several websites to not see ads, so it (paying to remove ads) seems like the normalest thing. And it should be the normalest thing.
The only weird thing here is that we pay a party that is not the one serving the ads, so the primary misses income from ads and potentially paying customers.
But I suspect that is what you meant with your remark.
Moreover, paying on every website is just insane overkill and very expense compared to the value you get from occasional visits (the sites I subscribe to I visit multiple times a day and they provide business value).
Something like Alby [0] could solve this though. But Crypto currency has become a dirty word around here ;) (Alby does allow fractions of cents to be transferred, like a stream, on website visits, it (among others) also powers per-second paying for Podcasts streams, splitting revenue between multiple podcast hosts, the podcast app and the central index if set up that way. It's hard to set up though, something fiat-currency, based with 0 overhead would be nice...).
No. Not having ads is the "normalest" thing. I would never pay. I would use an ad blocker, and if that does not work, I would not use the website at all. This is the "normalest" thing to do, not giving them money for using ads.
You are enabling them and paying them for using ads. How is that the "normalest" or even normal thing to do? How do you expect them to stop showing ads if not only the ads themselves work, but even the ones who don't click ads pay them for having ads (to not show them, but ultimately it is for them having ads)?
I think you misunderstood. I'm saying The normalest thing is to offer value for value. Value for the gathered information, as money, or you let them influence you via ads.
It is not normal to expect something for free. You do not have the right to someone else's productivity on your terms, you have it on theirs.
I got this far down in the comments before I realized that this subject was such a big deal to everyone because, for them, their phones are what they use to interact with websites. It's bizarre. Last year I needed to watch a video to do a simple furnace repair, and I could not watch it on my phone... I'd have to keep going back to my desk to watch it there, and then return to do the fix.
Even the laptop's difficult to do much on unless I have it plugged into the dock and the two monitors.
I'm not sure when everyone and myself diverged, but it feels pretty strange.
Right. My problem is that we have to pay to not see ads (which enables them to show ads unless paid), or we do not pay and we see ads, but ultimately in either case we are paying for ads or because of ads, which means ads are going to stay here forever.
Imagine there's a business that can't really enforce whether you walk out without providing compensation. You realize you have the home court advantage on enforcement and guess what, you don't want to pay. It's your browser/wallet and that's your prerogative. But what does that mean about how tempting their goods are? Do we have prerogative to these goods?
Should we live in a world where we only permit business models that require customers pay directly or don't enter at all?
Of course there is a means to enforce payment, paywalls. Ads are a particular model for monetization, it does not mean it is the only one. How about when you want to see a movie, nobody will let you in unless you have bought a ticket. Now of course theaters know that you have paid, but they still say, hey, here are 30 minutes of ads to go with your movie, but then it is then fair for us to show up late.
My reply was about not willing to pay for an ad blocker.
The state of ads on the web is abysmal, but I'm not beyond paying someone for the work they do to create, test and update the extension that gets rid of them
Yeah, the ad situation really is so horrible it is worth paying to get out of it. Also supporting an inde dev to provide a useful app with the equivalent of a nice cup of coffee doesn't feel all that bad.
Well, it's a $5 app on the App Store. ~$3.20 will go towards paying the indie dev, and most of the remaining ~$1.50 will go directly into Apple's coffers as a reward for doing such a good job locking down their operating system.
Kinda feels like Apple is deliberately making it horrible so you view paying them as the only ethical solution. For example, I don't have to do this song-and-dance to block ads on non-monopolized platforms.
> Well, it's a $5 app on the App Store. ~$3.20 will go towards paying the indie dev, and most of the remaining ~$1.50 will go directly into Apple's coffers as a reward for doing such a good job locking down their operating system.
This is not a defense but merely a correction: The small developer program is 85%/15% rather than 70%/30% for anyone making less than $1 million per year.
The small developer program is opt-in, AFAIK the developer will be charged the full 30% by-default unless they explicitly apply.
You can rest assured that professional App Store developers have enrolled.
I think this is sarcastic?
I mean I pay on several websites to not see ads, so it (paying to remove ads) seems like the normalest thing. And it should be the normalest thing.
The only weird thing here is that we pay a party that is not the one serving the ads, so the primary misses income from ads and potentially paying customers.
But I suspect that is what you meant with your remark.
Moreover, paying on every website is just insane overkill and very expense compared to the value you get from occasional visits (the sites I subscribe to I visit multiple times a day and they provide business value).
Something like Alby [0] could solve this though. But Crypto currency has become a dirty word around here ;) (Alby does allow fractions of cents to be transferred, like a stream, on website visits, it (among others) also powers per-second paying for Podcasts streams, splitting revenue between multiple podcast hosts, the podcast app and the central index if set up that way. It's hard to set up though, something fiat-currency, based with 0 overhead would be nice...).
[0] https://getalby.com/
No. Not having ads is the "normalest" thing. I would never pay. I would use an ad blocker, and if that does not work, I would not use the website at all. This is the "normalest" thing to do, not giving them money for using ads.
You are enabling them and paying them for using ads. How is that the "normalest" or even normal thing to do? How do you expect them to stop showing ads if not only the ads themselves work, but even the ones who don't click ads pay them for having ads (to not show them, but ultimately it is for them having ads)?
I think you misunderstood. I'm saying The normalest thing is to offer value for value. Value for the gathered information, as money, or you let them influence you via ads.
It is not normal to expect something for free. You do not have the right to someone else's productivity on your terms, you have it on theirs.
I got this far down in the comments before I realized that this subject was such a big deal to everyone because, for them, their phones are what they use to interact with websites. It's bizarre. Last year I needed to watch a video to do a simple furnace repair, and I could not watch it on my phone... I'd have to keep going back to my desk to watch it there, and then return to do the fix.
Even the laptop's difficult to do much on unless I have it plugged into the dock and the two monitors.
I'm not sure when everyone and myself diverged, but it feels pretty strange.
I do not watch videos on my phone either. I have never visited YouTube on my phone, for example. In fact, I rarely use my phone.
It's been normal for thousands of years to pay for services which you use.
Cool, no one argued against that.
I will not contribute to an ad-ridden world (whether by paying or using), but you do you.
But, I was talking about contributing to a world with less ads… I feel like something is going wrong here.
If that is the case, then I misunderstood you.
If I pay I expect not to see ads. If I would, I would not pay and stop the subscription.
Right. My problem is that we have to pay to not see ads (which enables them to show ads unless paid), or we do not pay and we see ads, but ultimately in either case we are paying for ads or because of ads, which means ads are going to stay here forever.
Ok, but what is the alternative?
Collectively not using the service, but I know it is just a dream. For the time being, adblockers and not paying for ads is a start?
You realize Hacker News is marketing for YC right?
Hacker News is shoving ads down your throat? I have no idea how you could compare it to what websites are typically doing, or what YouTube is doing.
I paid a one time lifetime fee of $6 for 1Blocker over 10 years ago for iOS.
They have a new version that is now $40 for a lifetime license. But the old version still works.
Better than viewing ads.
I mean… putting the app onto the store costs a yearly fee + development costs. I don’t think the dev should pay that out of their own pocket.
[flagged]
Imagine asking the browser on my hardware to do things I don’t want it to do, and acting shocked when I tell it not to.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45749983
Yeah, sorry, I realized after I commented.
Imagine there's a business that can't really enforce whether you walk out without providing compensation. You realize you have the home court advantage on enforcement and guess what, you don't want to pay. It's your browser/wallet and that's your prerogative. But what does that mean about how tempting their goods are? Do we have prerogative to these goods?
Should we live in a world where we only permit business models that require customers pay directly or don't enter at all?
You know, I do not actually know that a website had ads before clicking on a link to it; I would be happy to only visit websites without ads.
It’s scummy to shove ads in my face without at least warning me and giving me a chance to leave, I think.
Fair point. There should be a header to reveal whether the payload has ads. Then you can refuse right there.
Of course there is a means to enforce payment, paywalls. Ads are a particular model for monetization, it does not mean it is the only one. How about when you want to see a movie, nobody will let you in unless you have bought a ticket. Now of course theaters know that you have paid, but they still say, hey, here are 30 minutes of ads to go with your movie, but then it is then fair for us to show up late.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45177601
My reply was about not willing to pay for an ad blocker.
The state of ads on the web is abysmal, but I'm not beyond paying someone for the work they do to create, test and update the extension that gets rid of them